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mbmsg
mbmsg New Reader
1/28/10 6:44 p.m.

The difference between toyota and a American manufacturer when it comes to this recall stuff:

American maker would have ignored it, and hired more lawyers to fight claims.

Toyota is willing to do whatever it takes to be seen as a quality maker, and safety leader, even if it means short term money loses.

Boring yes they are, but dead reliable. When it comes to owning a car that will start when I need to go to work I pick Japanese. When I want a fun car I usually go European. Just personal preference and opinion, based on my ownership experiences.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
1/28/10 6:57 p.m.

I work for an american company.. they are very good at laying me off the moment there is even so much as a bump in the economic road ahead.

that said, I would never own a toyota.. or probably a GM or a Chrysler product either. I have had good luck with Fords though... at least in driving them. Aside from two Korean cars.. all mine came from the other side of the atlantic

tuna55
tuna55 HalfDork
1/28/10 7:34 p.m.
mbmsg wrote: The difference between toyota and a American manufacturer when it comes to this recall stuff: American maker would have ignored it, and hired more lawyers to fight claims. Toyota is willing to do whatever it takes to be seen as a quality maker, and safety leader, even if it means short term money loses. Boring yes they are, but dead reliable. When it comes to owning a car that will start when I need to go to work I pick Japanese. When I want a fun car I usually go European. Just personal preference and opinion, based on my ownership experiences.

You do realize that the government forced Toyota to do this, right? Toyota had nothing voluntary here like you are assuming. Nice.

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado Dork
1/28/10 9:08 p.m.
John Brown wrote: Oh come on Eric, I work for a US company, we sell and repair German vehicles that are mostly manufactured in Mexico ;)

ROFL! But IIRC, you work for the Evil Overlords that won't bring the Polo over here...I guess I'l drive my A2 Golf for another 18yrs.

And I work for a US Company that distributes (mostly) US product. We're pretty successful, but we're not a manufacturing company.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
1/29/10 7:49 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
mbmsg wrote: The difference between toyota and a American manufacturer when it comes to this recall stuff: American maker would have ignored it, and hired more lawyers to fight claims. Toyota is willing to do whatever it takes to be seen as a quality maker, and safety leader, even if it means short term money loses. Boring yes they are, but dead reliable. When it comes to owning a car that will start when I need to go to work I pick Japanese. When I want a fun car I usually go European. Just personal preference and opinion, based on my ownership experiences.

You do realize that the government forced Toyota to do this, right? Toyota had nothing voluntary here like you are assuming. Nice.

And apparently Toyota has known about this since 07. Way to make yourself look silly,.

http://jalopnik.com/5459053/timeline-toyotas-floor-mat-and-gas-pedal-recall-nightmare

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
1/29/10 8:01 a.m.

I like how everyone is bashing the car companies for not coming clean on issues.. or praising them for voluntarily issuing a recall..

BS

recalls hurt a company either way. This can be through ill will among their customers or potential customers.. or through no sales, or through having to replace broken/damaged/out of spec parts.

NO company wants to do a recall and when one is issued it is either through government intervention OR it becomes economically beneficial to do so.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
1/29/10 8:06 a.m.
friedgreencorrado wrote:
John Brown wrote: Oh come on Eric, I work for a US company, we sell and repair German vehicles that are mostly manufactured in Mexico ;)

ROFL! But IIRC, you work for the Evil Overlords that won't bring the Polo over here...I guess I'l drive my A2 Golf for another 18yrs.

And I work for a US Company that distributes (mostly) US product. We're pretty successful, but we're not a manufacturing company.

I work for Williams Autoworld, an American company that sells products from various locations and also service. Our current product range involves Volkswagen, Audi and Subaru.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
1/29/10 8:54 a.m.

I work in the United States of America for a Canadian company.

These cars getting recalled, are they throttle-by-wire (TBW) or do they use a conventional throttle cable? Our 99 LS400 is TBW with some manual override. The newer Harleys are TBW and there's been a few reports of them doing the same thing.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
1/29/10 9:11 a.m.

They're TBR....throttle by rock. You have a pile of rocks in different sizes that you throw at the throttle body. Different size rocks offer different throttle points.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/29/10 9:44 a.m.

What's most disturbing to me is that according to an NBC news story last night, neither Toyota nor the company that manufactures the accelerator pedal assemblies believe that those assemblies have anything to do with the situations that caused the incidents that have made headlines.

Interesting statistics: "Toyota began using its drive-by-wire system in 2002, starting with the ES 300. According to the Los AngelesTimes, unintended acceleration complaints on Lexus ES 300s jumped from an average of 26 per year in 2001 to 132 per year in 2002, and there had been 19 deaths since 2002 related to unintended acceleration in Toyotas, compared with 11 deaths connected to all other automakers combined. "

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy New Reader
1/29/10 10:01 a.m.
carzan wrote: Interesting statistics: "Toyota began using its drive-by-wire system in 2002, starting with the ES 300. According to the Los AngelesTimes, unintended acceleration complaints on Lexus ES 300s jumped from an average of 26 per year in 2001 to 132 per year in 2002, and there had been 19 deaths since 2002 related to unintended acceleration in Toyotas, compared with 11 deaths connected to all other automakers combined. "

Lets see.... I've got 4 Toyotas.... the newest is the wifes 02 IS300 Sport Cross. The others.... an AE95 sedan, an AE86 coupe, and a AE71 coupe - none of which are new enough to have any "Drive by system"

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog HalfDork
1/29/10 10:16 a.m.

WTF ever happened to "drive by driver"? The drive by wire is one of the few things I will not miss when I sell my 06 Miata.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/29/10 10:46 a.m.
Junkyard_Dog wrote: WTF ever happened to "drive by driver"? The drive by wire is one of the few things I will not miss when I sell my 06 Miata.

Dingdingdingding!!! The gazillion dollar question! At least you could push the clutch in if it decided to go HAL on you.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
1/29/10 11:48 a.m.

Are you nuts? How are you going to be able to shift while drinking your latte, texting on your phone, changing songs on your ipod, yelling at your kid in the back seat? That's silly expecting people to actually drive.

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition New Reader
1/29/10 12:06 p.m.

I love it!

Cash for Clunkers = Old Ford and GM SUV's being traded for new Japanese cars to "save the environment and improve overall mileage."

Killer Toyotas = Trading new Japanese cars in for GM and Ford SUV's that won't kill the passengers.

Well, that worked, now let's try doing it with refrigerators. Trade your old GE refrigerator in for one made in China painted with lead paint.

Fun with government thinking!!

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
1/29/10 1:50 p.m.

My new favorite story:

http://www.autospies.com/news/PEDAL-GATE-UPDATE-Ford-Halts-Production-Of-Chinese-Delivery-Vans-That-Use-Toyota-Spec-Accelerator-Pedals-51527/

Ford has initiated a stop work order on a full-size van because it uses the same gas pedal believed to be the cause of sudden, uncontrolled acceleration in several Toyota models.

Roughly 1,600 Ford Transit Classic diesel vehicles for the Chinese market have been assembled since production began in December. Production was frozen on the Transit Classic, which is built by a joint venture with Jiangling Motors Co. The van's accelerator, sourced by Indiana-based firm CTS Corp., is a part alleged to be the leading factor in 20 deaths and 2,000 complaints in Toyota vehicles dating back to 2005.

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
1/29/10 2:12 p.m.
mbmsg wrote: The difference between toyota and a American manufacturer when it comes to this recall stuff: American maker would have ignored it, and hired more lawyers to fight claims. Toyota is willing to do whatever it takes to be seen as a quality maker, and safety leader, even if it means short term money loses.

No, the difference between Toyota and an American manufacturer with this recall stuff has always been this:

Let an American car company issue a recall, and it's proof that they build crap and should be avoided at all costs.

Let a Japanese company issue a recall and they are proactively protecting their customers and should be supported at all costs.

This is the first indication that the tide is turning in public perception.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
1/29/10 3:09 p.m.

ChrisV-Where do the Germans fit in that scenario? Every transmission behind the 4.0 V8 dies around 125k, cooling systems that have to be entirely replaced at 100k to keep from toasting the engine, etc...

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
1/29/10 3:12 p.m.

^ you forget the electronics?

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
1/29/10 3:15 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote: ^ you forget the electronics?

Wait, electronics are supposed to work? (I DD a Land Rover )

kb58
kb58 Reader
1/29/10 3:18 p.m.

There sure seems to be a lot of anger and bitterness over Toyota's success, and barely-suppressed glee at their problems. Yet, how'd they get so successful; it certainly wasn't by building lousy cars. Yet, it's as if some people think so, that Toyota's always built junk, and dumb people just don't notice. That's rediculous.

Schmidlap
Schmidlap Reader
1/29/10 3:22 p.m.
Basil Exposition wrote: Cash for Clunkers = Old Ford and GM SUV's being traded for new Japanese cars to "save the environment and improve overall mileage."

That's brings up an interesting thought - how different would car sales have been during cash-for-clunkers if Toyota had to stop selling 8 models then? According to government figures, the Camry and Corolla were top 5 sellers during that program, but can't be sold now. Would those buyers have gone for a Prius instead (which is not affected by the recall) or would they have gone for a Civic, Focus, Fusion, Accord, etc. instead or would they have simply waited it out for Toyota to come up with a solution? Would stopping sales of the Rav4 have pushed the Escape even higher in the rankings from it's number 6 spot?

And if this did happen back then, can you imagine the conspiracy theories that would have come out? "The government is attacking Toyota on purpose now that they own GM and Chrysler!!!"

Just thinking out loud. (or on the screen, I guess) Bob

jrw1621
jrw1621 Dork
1/29/10 3:34 p.m.

Received moments ago from Avis:


Yesterday Avis announced that it was removing all of the vehicles identified for recall by Toyota from its corporate fleet in the US, Canada, and Puerto Rico. This step was taken to protect the safety of our customers, which is always our top priority.

It is important to note that the safety problems that have led to Toyota’s recall of certain vehicles are believed to arise out of usage over time. Accordingly, we believe that all of the Toyota vehicles in our fleet are safe, given the regular maintenance and the low mileage of our overall fleet.

We also want to reassure you that the affected Toyotas represent only a small percentage of our overall fleet, so we expect to be able to fulfill all projected demand and you can continue to make reservations with complete confidence for any rental occasion. Our fleet strategy emphasizes diversity so that we are able to respond to the full range of vehicle rental needs of our customers, as well as to reduce our risk from any issues arising out of any individual manufacturer.

We further want to emphasize that only certain Toyota makes and models, in addition to the Pontiac Vibe, are affected by the recall. Those Toyota vehicles that are not affected will continue to be offered for rental; however, if you are uncomfortable driving a Toyota vehicle, we will make every effort to offer you an alternative vehicle if one is available.

Our commitment to customer safety is also behind our decision to offer what we believe is the youngest and lowest-mileage fleet in the vehicle rental industry. Whether you place as high a premium on safety as we do, or whether you just like driving new cars, either way Avis continues to be your best car rental choice.

Thank you for continuing to choose Avis for your vehicle rental needs.

Sincerely,

Thomas M. Gartland Executive Vice President

Interesting thing noticed...

This the first I have heard of the Pontiac Vibe being included (though it makes sense.)

It is the first I have heard this "over time" statement.

Is it because of this "over time" issue that you can not buy a brand new Toyota?

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
1/29/10 3:36 p.m.
kb58 wrote: There sure seems to be a lot of anger and bitterness over Toyota's success, and barely-suppressed glee at their problems. Yet, how'd they get so successful; it certainly wasn't by building lousy cars. Yet, it's as if some people think so, that Toyota's always built junk, and dumb people just don't notice. That's rediculous.

Nope. Toyota built great cars that lasted for bazillion miles. They built their reputation on that. And until about 10 years ago it was deserved. Once Toyota changed their focus from QUALITY to QUANTITY their started down a slippery slope. Then as their profits soared and they found ways to make more without building the same quality automobile, they entered the realm tha was once inhabited by the domestics. They had the "We're Toyota, you WILL buy our product no matter the cost" and ignored the fact that their product line was slipping.

I've never said Toyota has always built junk. I HAVE said taht they are building junk NOW and have rested on their laurels and ignored the buying public.

Hal
Hal HalfDork
1/29/10 3:52 p.m.
jrw1621 wrote: Received moments ago from Avis:

That's called proactive crisis prevention or CYA.

The members of this and other automotive forums seem to be regarded as the "car guys", the people with the answers to all "car questions".

As such I think it is our duty to explain to all who will listen that the problems are caused by the TBW systems and automatic transmissions. And that untill such items are eliminated from vehicles this type of problem will always exist.

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