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Ransom
Ransom PowerDork
7/29/19 12:25 p.m.

I hate CUVs, and I blame them for my difficulty in finding a wagon, which is a quantifiably better answer to "reasonably-sized thing with cargo area in the back" for anybody who doesn't want to vertically Jenga their luggage, without even getting into the silliness of making a vehicle taller when it has no functional reason to be that way.

I'm glad they're paying to help Porsche go racing or what have you, and I hope the folks who buy them enjoy them, but I'm looking forward to their going out of fashion. Fingers crossed Volvo has an impact on the fashion-conscious with the sharp new wagons, but the fact you can get an S/CUV in similar design probably blunts that tack. An aspirational wagon can't be a bad thing for the future of motoring, though.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
7/29/19 12:34 p.m.

I feel like very few people who complain about the Macan or Big Pepper have never actually driven on. The Macan especially in GTS guise is really really good at being a sports car that just happens to seat more then 2 people. 

I would guess that more then 90% of 911 never see the track as well on there first and second owners. At least the Macan is being used for what it was intended. 

penultimeta
penultimeta HalfDork
7/29/19 12:42 p.m.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse here, but I will say that I just don't get it. I can't see what appreciable difference a CUV has over a station wagon or large sedan other than being less useful. 

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise HalfDork
7/29/19 12:44 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Photoshop one slammed on fat rubber and i bet you'd dig it. I know i probably would. 

 

No need for photoshop 

 

Error404
Error404 New Reader
7/29/19 12:47 p.m.
penultimeta said:

I'm not going to beat a dead horse here, but I will say that I just don't get it. I can't see what appreciable difference a CUV has over a station wagon or large sedan other than being less useful. 

I see it as 3 types of people:

1- These people just don't care and it's what they got a deal on or was in the right color or whatever

2- Older people who like the seat height on their aftermarket hips and knees

3- Younger people who see them as "sporty" and "exciting" compared to soccer mom wagons or their grandparents big towncar/sedan

I'm generalising, of course. There's also the "larger is better" aspect in a throwaway society where we can afford to drive impractical vehicles to fit an image. Not to mention, they are a bit taller which probably impacts the way people perceive visibility out of them, limited as it is, or the amount of ridiculous tech that can be jammed into them.

 

Edit: I get profit margins and all that but I still think they're silly. I too am waiting for them to go out of style but I doubt that we will regress to wagons or 4-door hatches rather, I think we will stray even further from the path.

I've also seen an X5 Dinan going around Roebling and, while it was hauling ass, it just wasn't as exciting to watch as anything else out there. Not that it made it look easy, it made it look pedestrian like it was showing off how you can drive down the freeway at double the posted now to let everyone know that you're important.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
7/29/19 12:55 p.m.
penultimeta said:

I'm not going to beat a dead horse here, but I will say that I just don't get it. I can't see what appreciable difference a CUV has over a station wagon or large sedan other than being less useful. 

they are easier to live with.  Just being up 6in makes them easier to live with.

Again, I would MUCH rather drive my Miata, which is low and narrow, but having had either an Edge or Escape for more than a decade, its really not hard to see their appeal.  

And I don't ever see them going away- they are light years more popular than wagons ever were.  And they have surpassed the mini-van.  

So you guys should just get used to them.

TopNoodles
TopNoodles Reader
7/29/19 12:57 p.m.

Low budget motorsport is gonna be real interesting in 10-15 years when all these CUVs hit rock bottom depreciation and there's an oversupply of used and new parts.

If you painted the rear windows on a CUV it would look like a rally raid car.

That's my irrelevant opinion on automobiles I can't afford and wouldn't buy.

yupididit
yupididit UltraDork
7/29/19 1:05 p.m.
mr2s2000elise said:
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Photoshop one slammed on fat rubber and i bet you'd dig it. I know i probably would. 

 

No need for photoshop 

 

Yassss those are dope. Probably make people even more angry now that they're stanced out lol

_
_ HalfDork
7/29/19 1:19 p.m.

This is what happens when automotive manufacturers allow the people they sell to, to make the decisions. The average buyer is incompetent, Ill advised, and has priorities in all the wrong categories. 

“I’m a single marketing agent that lives in the suburbs, so naturally I need a vehicle that seats 6 and is equipped to traverse the arctic tundra.”

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
7/29/19 2:08 p.m.
_ said:

This is what happens when automotive manufacturers allow the people they sell to, to make the decisions. The average buyer is incompetent, Ill advised, and has priorities in all the wrong categories. 

“I’m a single marketing agent that lives in the suburbs, so naturally I need a vehicle that seats 6 and is equipped to traverse the arctic tundra.”

FWIW, it's SO much easier to get a consumer to give you money when you let them decide what they want.  Profit sharing check for the win!

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/29/19 2:27 p.m.
_ said:

This is what happens when automotive manufacturers allow the people they sell to, to make the decisions. The average buyer is incompetent, Ill advised, and has priorities in all the wrong categories. 

“I’m a single marketing agent that lives in the suburbs, so naturally I need a vehicle that seats 6 and is equipped to traverse the arctic tundra.”

Right. Companies shouldn't sell their popular items that make them money. 

I will make sure to inform the people in charge at work tomorrow. 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltimaDork
7/29/19 3:13 p.m.

Oh yes, Comrade!  Think how much better off we'd all be if we let big corporations sell us only what they deem appropriate for our situation.  They could assess our needs and tell us what to buy, when to buy, and how much to spend.  Wouldn't that be great?

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
7/29/19 3:14 p.m.

For the past decade and a half, Porsche has been a truck company that also happens to sell some noteworthy sports cars.  Thanks VW!

NickD
NickD PowerDork
7/29/19 3:22 p.m.

As soon as I read the headline I thought "It's going to be Macan or Cayenne." I wasn't wrong.

Flynlow
Flynlow HalfDork
7/29/19 3:28 p.m.
alfadriver said:

they are easier to live with.  Just being up 6in makes them easier to live with.

Again, I would MUCH rather drive my Miata, which is low and narrow, but having had either an Edge or Escape for more than a decade, its really not hard to see their appeal.  

And I don't ever see them going away- they are light years more popular than wagons ever were.  And they have surpassed the mini-van.  

So you guys should just get used to them.

I'm happy SUVs sell well and make lots of money for the manufacturer, as I said in my previous post.  That money keeps the fun cars like the 911 focused on being awesome cars.

What I don't like, and the folks naysaying here miss, is that its not just complaining about what other people buy.  Its that the stuff i want to buy is going away.  

Picking on ford for a moment, both since they killed their US car base and because alfa can speak to it, they're a classic example.  I have no problem with others wanting to buy an SUV.  I have a big problem with Ford dumping the US Focus ST because its not AS PROFITABLE (still makes money) as the Edge ST.  Why not continue to offer both?  I'm sure theres some fresh MBA grad with all the answers in their middle management that showed profit forecasts if you convert those lost focus buyers to SUVs, but plenty of people that want a $22k hot hatch DON'T want a $35k SUV.   So they go buy a GTI instead of remaining in the ford family.  

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
7/29/19 3:57 p.m.

I read a really good article that part of the reason we don't get wagons here is the CAFE mileage standards.  These small crossovers count as "trucks" and not passenger cars.  So rather than send us a wagon like the RS4 avant or RS3 hatchback, Audi sends us the Q3 because then they can dodge the higher mpg that the wagon would impose on them.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
7/29/19 3:58 p.m.

In reply to Flynlow :

That's a different argument.  And one i'm not terribly happy about.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
7/29/19 4:14 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:

Oh yes, Comrade!  Think how much better off we'd all be if we let big corporations sell us only what they deem appropriate for our situation.  They could assess our needs and tell us what to buy, when to buy, and how much to spend.  Wouldn't that be great?

Wait...Apple makes a car?

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/29/19 4:31 p.m.
Flynlow said:
alfadriver said:

they are easier to live with.  Just being up 6in makes them easier to live with.

Again, I would MUCH rather drive my Miata, which is low and narrow, but having had either an Edge or Escape for more than a decade, its really not hard to see their appeal.  

And I don't ever see them going away- they are light years more popular than wagons ever were.  And they have surpassed the mini-van.  

So you guys should just get used to them.

I'm happy SUVs sell well and make lots of money for the manufacturer, as I said in my previous post.  That money keeps the fun cars like the 911 focused on being awesome cars.

What I don't like, and the folks naysaying here miss, is that its not just complaining about what other people buy.  Its that the stuff i want to buy is going away.  

Picking on ford for a moment, both since they killed their US car base and because alfa can speak to it, they're a classic example.  I have no problem with others wanting to buy an SUV.  I have a big problem with Ford dumping the US Focus ST because its not AS PROFITABLE (still makes money) as the Edge ST.  Why not continue to offer both?  I'm sure theres some fresh MBA grad with all the answers in their middle management that showed profit forecasts if you convert those lost focus buyers to SUVs, but plenty of people that want a $22k hot hatch DON'T want a $35k SUV.   So they go buy a GTI instead of remaining in the ford family.  

This sounds like the classic GRM argument. 

"Why don't they still sell X?"
"Did you buy the car when it was available?"
"No, I want to buy one used after the depreciation hit."
 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltimaDork
7/29/19 4:39 p.m.
docwyte said:

I read a really good article that part of the reason we don't get wagons here is the CAFE mileage standards.  These small crossovers count as "trucks" and not passenger cars.  So rather than send us a wagon like the RS4 avant or RS3 hatchback, Audi sends us the Q3 because then they can dodge the higher mpg that the wagon would impose on them.

This brings up an interesting point.  Did anyone in government ever think it might be a good idea to impose some sort of reasonable fuel mileage standard on EVERY VEHICLE in a manufacturer's lineup?

To what extent is the demise of the sedan tied to the CAFE standards?

Is there ANY government standard for the fuel economy of light trucks and so-called "SUV's?"

Flynlow
Flynlow HalfDork
7/29/19 5:13 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

It was an attempt at opening a dialogue on "why not sell both the porker SUV AND the hot hatch? They both make money, and there's not a huge overlap in the buyers of these segments, lets keep everybody happy even if one outsells the other".

But thank you for your input.  

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
7/29/19 5:16 p.m.
Flynlow said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It was an attempt at opening a dialogue on "why not sell both the porker SUV AND the hot hatch? They both make money, and there's not a huge overlap in the buyers of these segments, lets keep everybody happy even if one outsells the other".

But thank you for your input.  

I'm just saying if the company felt it was worthwhile, they would continue to sell both. It's not being dismissive or mean, it's just facts, unfortunately. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
7/29/19 5:22 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:
docwyte said:

I read a really good article that part of the reason we don't get wagons here is the CAFE mileage standards.  These small crossovers count as "trucks" and not passenger cars.  So rather than send us a wagon like the RS4 avant or RS3 hatchback, Audi sends us the Q3 because then they can dodge the higher mpg that the wagon would impose on them.

This brings up an interesting point.  Did anyone in government ever think it might be a good idea to impose some sort of reasonable fuel mileage standard on EVERY VEHICLE in a manufacturer's lineup?

To what extent is the demise of the sedan tied to the CAFE standards?

Is there ANY government standard for the fuel economy of light trucks and so-called "SUV's?"

The standards actually apply to each individual model.  So now, there is no such thing as a loss leader to make up for another vehicle.

There are some concessions to trucks, but not nearly what they used to be.  And its very much not as if SUV and CUVs have been given away- as they do bring the most profit per vehicle.   So given the profitability of trucks and SUV's, this change is totally consumer driven.

Flynlow
Flynlow HalfDork
7/29/19 5:23 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

My household (not me) bought 2 fiesta st's new, and the focus rs order was cancelled when the dealer offered a <1000 mile car to get off the waitlist sooner.    

My next car is going to be new.  It would have been a focus st or gti.  I am kind of hoping honda offers the SI in a hatch in the next model year or two.  I want the better seats and lsd.  

Is that a better answer?

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
7/29/19 5:59 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Flynlow said:

In reply to z31maniac :

It was an attempt at opening a dialogue on "why not sell both the porker SUV AND the hot hatch? They both make money, and there's not a huge overlap in the buyers of these segments, lets keep everybody happy even if one outsells the other".

But thank you for your input.  

I'm just saying if the company felt it was worthwhile, they would continue to sell both. It's not being dismissive or mean, it's just facts, unfortunately. 

Judging by Ford's sales data, income, and stock price versus the manufacturers that continue to offer cars as well points a pretty vividly clear picture that Ford is wrong on this one, and badly. 

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