Another garage lift thread

I'm in the fortunate position of being able to build a brand new garage (sometime within the next year), and the unfortunate position of having to pay for it with my own money.  I've read the debates here over the years about what type of lifts are preferred, and I'm thinking about something like this:

I guess my question is, for people have have a recessed lift, is it worth the money?  I'm not a mechanic, I do maybe 1 major project a year and the rest of the time it's just basic maintenance.  If I don't do it now I'll probably just stick with jacks and ramps, which might be fine for my purposes.

2 post lift's can be had for sub $3k

If you have the space for a two post, I'd go two post for a pure work lift. Four post for a storage lift that can help with work a bit.

I have a 2 post, but may not have space for it in my new garage. I'm interested in the pros/ cons of those lifts in the original post. 

Thoughts?

I looked into putting in a recessed scissor lift like so:

Here's the Garage Journal thread I lifted the image from and here's the lift shown.

Bottom line: It's nearly double the price of a four post lift to start then you have to add in the concrete work. If I were building from scratch it's something I would consider but it's spendy to retrofit one.

The low/mid rise lift has a more palatable starting price but it was harder to recess them because most were tied together in some way which leaves a huge recess in between them making it hard to get a creeper or chair under them for exhaust or suspension work. The one you linked looks like it wouldn't have that issue. Any more info on it?

Edit: looks like Bendpak makes a few now with the MDS series lifts. Interesting but still double the price of a 2 or 4 post. I can see the attraction if you're space limited or don't want to deal with the space requirements of a traditional 2 or 4 post while still having good access to the bottom of a vehicle.

I've never used the specific lifts in the original post, but from the photo they don't look like they go up all that high.  They look pretty similar to my quickjack, albeit permanently installed and recessed.  Assuming that to be the case, think of them not so much as a lift, but more of a way to quickly and easily put the car up on a set of high jackstands.  You're still going to be squatting/sitting to do work on the suspension, and you're going to be lying on your back to work underneath it, but instead of a 15 minute dance with a jack and the stands you just drive into the shop and press a button.

Compared to jackstands, the downsides of this system are that it's less flexible.  You can't slide in from the side of the car, you have to come in from the front or back, and the car has to have support points between the wheels with a certain minimum wheelbase.  You'd probably have a hard time lifting a Locost with that lift (due to the unusual frame shape), and it might not be possible to hit the specialized lifting points on an Elise.

The scissor lift The0retical posted is definitely a higher lift than a quickjack -- pretty different from the lifts in the original post.  It's neat in that it almost disappears when not in use, so it's good for a really slick-looking, dressed-up garage/mancave.  I tend to take a more functional and less aesthetic approach, though, so I'd rather have a 2 post (or 4-post with rolling bridge jacks) than the scisssor.

General rule of thumb:  If your primary goal is general automotive work and you are not constrained on floor strength or on width, then a 2-post is the right answer.  If your primary goal is storage, or you're trying to fit it into garage of standard width, then you want a 4-post (with rolling bridge jacks to make suspension work easier).

Functionally, they are similar to a scissor lift, although with better center access.  As mentioned, it'll work better on some cars than others.  For example, my ex- has a Quick Jack which works great for her MX-5 and MINI.  But much to her frustration, it won't work for her Spitfire or Volvo 1800ES.

It really depends on your priorities. While a 2 post is great, the amount of room they take up during the 99% of the time they aren't being used can be annoying.  They can also turn a 2-car garage into a 1-car with their width.  When not in use, a recessed lift is basically out of sight, out of mind.  For a garage used primarily for parking, that can be very valuable.  Rather than a low-rise, I'd probably choose a mid-rise version that can lift at least up to 4'. 

It gets annoying when people say only to buy a 2 or 4 post lift as they aren't always the right solution.  I can (and do) have two scissor lifts in my garage.  I can't install a 2 or 4 post lift at all.  I don't have the width or the height.  

For ocassional use, consider a MaxJax?

https://www.maxjaxusa.com/

Several on this board (myself included) have them and are happy. Takes 10-15 minutes to set up depending on whether you leave a post in place or not.

You need to decide how you're going to be using the lift for the majority of the time.  If it's storage, a 4 post lift is the best choice.  Easy to drive onto/off of, excellent underbody access and with a bridge jack, wheels off work is easy as well.  That's the route I took.

If you have lots of space and are looking for a pure work lift, a 2 post lift works really well.  Total access to the underside of the car as well as wheels off access.  As mentioned, takes up lots of space and generally needs concrete work done to a residential garage floor to get the necessary concrete depth to install.

Another good choice is the 2 post mid lift MaxJax.  I know several members here have them.  Works well in smaller residential garages with limited ceiling height, still gives all the advantages of working on a 2 post lift.  Can't walk underneath it, but you can easily unbolt one tower and move it to the corner, so it's not in the way.

I don't really have experience with scissor jacks.  If you're going to recess one into the floor, it's going to cost an enormous amount of money.  Not sure that's worth it.  Not sure what you gain over a MaxJax...

In reply to codrus :

The main reason I was looking at that particular one, the GJ thread is a few years old and is pre QuickJack, is due to the space requirements. Most "two" car garages make it pretty difficult to get a two or four post in there. Even a solution like a MaxJaxx sometimes requires removing one of the cars from the garage to set it up and, depending on space, you may not be able to get it back and do things like open the doors while the center post is up. That's fine if its a quick job but we all know quick jobs can devolve into three or four day jobs while having an undrivable car occupying that space. Not my favorite thing in the middle of winter. You also still have to store the posts off in a corner when not in use. While not horrible still occupies space which is seemingly always at a premium in even well designed residential garages.

I guess it all depends how the garage is designed and what will best suit the space. Since OP is building a new garage he has some options. Recessed scissors are just nice because they still provide access to the undercarriage but don't have the space requirements of a two or four post when not in use. The downside is the expense.

Semi-Related: The other factor in my search was my kids. I have two and they're young. I guarantee with a 2 post they'd be opening the doors into it all the time or tripping over the arms. There's very few things worse than ugly smashed up doors.

I agree with Docwyte.

I wrestled with the decision for a long time, considered every possible option, and finally settled on a MaxJax. It is/was fantastic for the type of work I was doing at the time, and the fact that I can knock it down in 15 minutes and park it in the corner is a huge advantage, but my needs have  changed. I find myself doing less work, and storage has become the new priority. By the end of the summer, I will probably be putting the MaxJax up for sale and replacing it with a four post. I think it kind of depends upon where you are in your life.

One point to think about on 4 post lifts that I didn't consider when I bought my first one is how high does it sit on the top locks?  Think about what you're going to park underneath it.  Not just now, but in the future.  How tall is that truck/SUV?  How much room is there underneath it when the decks are on the top lock, not at max height!  I had 69" of clearance on my old 4 post lift, which is plenty for any car and for my old Cayenne's.

However, when I swapped SUV's with my wife, her old GX470 is closer to 75" tall.  It wouldn't fit underneath the lift, not by a long shot.  A Jeep Grand Cherokee is 69" tall, that also wouldn't fit.  A 4Runner wouldn't fit.  In fact,many SUV's/Trucks wouldn't fit underneath the old 4 poster.  That led me to "upgrade" my lift to a high rise model, where I have 78" of clearance with the lift on its top locks.  I'd just get a high rise version period, you never know what you're going to get in the future...

All lift designs have positives and negatives. It just depends on which of those are important to you.

I bought my first scissor lift before Max Jacks were available. If I had waited about a year, I would have gone that route.  I'm now glad I went the scissor lift route since while a Max Jack would have worked in my ex's garage, one would not work in mine due to the width requirements.

The0retical said:

The main reason I was looking at that particular one, the GJ thread is a few years old and is pre QuickJack, is due to the space requirements. Most "two" car garages make it pretty difficult to get a two or four post in there.

Two posts I agree, but four-posts are pretty friendly to residential garages, IME.  The Bend-Pack HD9-ST that I have is 8'4" wide, and 14'6" long.  It fits great in a 20' wide garage, and will squeeze into an 18' wide one.  The fact that the posts are at the front & back means that they don't intrude into door-opening space for the car on the other side of the garage.  The posts are 7'4" tall, so even a low ceiling isn't likely to prevent installing one (although having only an 8' ceiling will definitely limit the utility of any lift).

codrus said:

The0retical said:

The main reason I was looking at that particular one, the GJ thread is a few years old and is pre QuickJack, is due to the space requirements. Most "two" car garages make it pretty difficult to get a two or four post in there.

 

Two posts I agree, but four-posts are pretty friendly to residential garages, IME.  The Bend-Pack HD9-ST that I have is 8'4" wide, and 14'6" long.  It fits great in a 20' wide garage, and will squeeze into an 18' wide one.  The fact that the posts are at the front & back means that they don't intrude into door-opening space for the car on the other side of the garage.  The posts are 7'4" tall, so even a low ceiling isn't likely to prevent installing one (although having only an 8' ceiling will definitely limit the utility of any lift).

 

Ditto the door opening space impact comment here.  

I figured I'd have a much better chance with a 4-post lift that was out of the way of SWMBO's vehicle doors than a two post lift.  Plus I am using it for storage as well.

In reply to codrus :

That's pretty much where I landed too honestly. I didn't feel the expense was worth the space gained by mounting them flush as slick as they look. The bonus of the 4 post is potentially an extra parking spot while still being able to do the work that I do in the garage. The two car in my older house in CA would have been difficult to get a 4 post into due to layout with the washer/dryer and water heater on the left some shelving on the right. If I had taken out the shelving it probably would have worked but I had my own detached shop so it wasn't a concern. Two cars was a tight squeeze in there to start with and I really only ever considered it an oversized one car.

A measuring tape and a floor plan would sort that out a lot of questions pretty quickly. OP is fortunate enough to be putting up his own structure so there's potentially a lot of flexibility there for him.

Also, when planning a space from scratch, just plan for eventually having two lifts.  

Nothing seems to create a need to get a car up onto a lift more than having another car up on a lift in a state you can't move it off.

Karacticus said:

Also, when planning a space from scratch, just plan for eventually having two lifts.  

Nothing seems to create a need to get a car up onto a lift more than having another car up on a lift in a state you can't move it off.

Heh, I've experienced that. :)  As an added benefit, that way you can buy both a 2-post AND a 4-post!

Definitely. In a perfect world I'd have at least one of all types.  There are some tasks a scissor lift is awesome for - waxing cars, for example, is much less a back-bending exercise when the car is 2-3 feet off the floor.  Interior work as well, when you want to be able to swing the doors wide without worrying about lift posts.  

Yes, we really need to know your building specs to get a better idea of what lift to recommend. A 6" floor will hold most anything, a 4" will do if you're not lifting diesel duallys all day. Plan your seams / crack lines ahead of time.

Build as big as you are allowed/can afford. An extra 2 feet in width and deep can make a huge difference with only a tiny increase in cost. Height is the same thing. Put down an extra row of block on the foundation and build 10' instead of 8' walls. Use scissor trusses instead of regular ones for even more ceiling height. Run the garage door tracks up the trusses instead of 90 degrees from the wall so you can have a car on the lift and still open the door. Want even more storage? Use scissor trusses on one side for clearance and storage trusses on the other. Space them at 16" or even 12" to increase your load capacity.  (you may need a 2x6 wall instead of 2x4).

I like my 2 post lift. It has more uses than a scissor or 4 post. I can lift a body or truck box off a frame for example.

Look into Asymmetrical lifts. they put the post ahead of the door for easier access. I like my Challenger E10.

This thread has been informative, thanks.  I gotta say, I'm surprised there's not much love for scissor lifts, I think it was a thread here that turned me on to them in the first place.

I'm limited by code to 575 sq ft, which is about 200 sq ft bigger than my current "2 car" garage but not quite as palatial as I might like.  With 2 cars, my tire trailer, a motorcycle and half a dozen kids bikes, the space evaporates pretty quickly.  I don't think I need a 4 post, and a fixed 2 post would feel cramped.  The MaxJax does seem like a good option, and it wouldn't really affect the design specs for the garage.

My thinking was that probably 90-95% of the time when I pull out the jack, I'm changing wheels, brakes, fluids, or fiddling with the suspension.  The lift wouldn't make any of those jobs easier, it'd just make them quicker.  I think something like the MaxJax would make the more complicated stuff easier, but I doubt I'd wheel it out and set it up for a brake pad swap.  Is my thinking backwards?

In reply to steronz :

Can you work around the code thing by building 2 garages that just happen to be next to each other?  A pair of 16 foot wide, 34 foot deep garages would work and each one would be under the 575 sq ft limit.  

I probably would.  One nice thing about the scissor lift is being able to move it around to where you want to use it.  For example, my minivan doesn't really fit in my garage with any room to work on it, so I'll roll the lift into my driveway and work on it there.   Another disadvantage is the height - it's about 6" high to the minimum pad height.  I can park the minivan over it if needed, but have to use double 2x12 ramps to get enough clearance to swing the arms into position.  

My garage has a 9 1/2 foot ceiling, so I can lift most cars to the full height of the lift.  One of my future projects is in lieu of trying to recess the lift(s) into the floor, I want to build up the floor around the lifts, which a removable section for the second one so I can still roll it into the driveway when I want to.  A raised floor would also keep me off of cold concrete during winter projects. 

While a scissor lift won't get much love from those used to using a 2-post, it's still a berk-load nicer than working on jack stands.  And for a lot of general maintenance work on modern FWD cars, they do the job really well.  For brake, suspension and even clutch & transmission projects, they work really well.  And when you aren't using it, you just park a car over it and forget it's there.

rslifkin said:

In reply to steronz :

Can you work around the code thing by building 2 garages that just happen to be next to each other?  A pair of 16 foot wide, 34 foot deep garages would work and each one would be under the 575 sq ft limit.  

Sadly they thought of that, I get 1 garage and 1 auxiliary structure that can't be more than like 170 sq ft.  But also I'd start running out of yard at some point.

In reply to steronz :

That's annoying.  Town limitation, I assume?  Does making the garage attached to the house change anything (because it's not a separate structure)?