RXBeetle New Reader
Jan. 11, 2009 6:25 p.m.

I keep seeing it for a few bucks cheaper than Mobil 1 and it's available in 5W40 that I would like to run in the winter. I just saw we're supposed to hit -F temps next week and I'd like to get the 15W50 out of there before we do I see a lot of motorcycle guys running it which makes me think I shouldn't have any trouble running it in a gas engine. Opinions/experience?

RandyS New Reader
Jan. 11, 2009 6:41 p.m.

I've read that it doesn't have any friction modifier additives. What that does or doesn't do for a car engine that is okay for a bike engine I'll leave to the experts to answer.

foxtrapper SuperDork
Jan. 11, 2009 7:13 p.m.

It's simply a diesel/gasoline engine oil.
API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF API SL, SJ, SH There's no reason not to run it.

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwg...

Jan. 11, 2009 7:47 p.m.

iirc the C ratings are for compression ignition, ie diesel, and the S ratings are for spark ignition, ie gasoline.

rotella has high zinc (again iirc working from memory) content which makes it desirable for flat tappet engines. since the last revision of API spec for spark ignition motor oil reduced zinc to almost zero, there have been a lot of wiped cams.

RXBeetle New Reader
Jan. 11, 2009 8:36 p.m.

Thanks for the replies. I've been reading up and talking to a friend who's dad used to use it to break in race motors back when it was good. I'm going to run it.

porksboy HalfDork
Jan. 11, 2009 9:32 p.m.

I use it in flat tappet engines also. Currently in a stock Spitfire engine.

shuttlepilot New Reader
Jan. 11, 2009 11:42 p.m.

Isn't zinc a cat killer? Maybe thats why its more a diesel kind of oil.

92dxman Reader
Jan. 12, 2009 12:26 a.m.

I've been running Rotella 10w30 in my car lately. My gas mileage has gone down a little bit on some tanks but i've had no problems with it.

RXBeetle New Reader
Jan. 12, 2009 12:37 a.m.

looks like the Porsche guys track engine oil changes pretty religiously due to the flat tappets, high oil temps, and really expensive parts. The newer (jan 1, '08) regulations reduced the allowable ZDDP (Zn/P) levels to save the whales or some such reason. From what I've read ZDDP is like the last resort of metal on metal protection, this makes it great on start-up, extended service, and high load. You can get some snake oil through GM called EOS to boost the ZDDP back up but apparenly there are claims of NLA on that product as well. I guess right now the only safe bet for the flat tappet guys is Mobil 1 V-twin motorcycle.

The good news is that the oil companies are wise to the issue and apparently working on a solution. Apparently Shell within the past few months has a new Rotella formula, they threw some more Boron in there which reacts with the ZDDP and is also a last layer of defense / anti-wear formula.

If you want to boil your brain with oil learninins check out Charles Navarro's research. http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

Now it's 1:30 am and my eyes hurt from reading pages of forum posts and tech articles...

spitfirebill
spitfirebill HalfDork
Jan. 12, 2009 7:11 a.m.

Diesel rated oil has more detergrent than gasoline type. I've read speculation it may be too much for flat tappet motors. And the recent formulations of Rotella have less ZDDP. The whole oil issue is making my head hurt.

I did notice motorcycle oil the other day at Advance Auto that was rated SH, which should have more ZDDP. Anybody know why you shouldn't use motorcycle oil in a car?

Xceler8x HalfDork
Jan. 12, 2009 7:38 a.m.
spitfirebill wrote: I did notice motorcycle oil the other day at Advance Auto that was rated SH, which should have more ZDDP. Anybody know why you shouldn't use motorcycle oil in a car?

Because life on this planet will cease to exist as we know it. At least that's what the other internet forums say.

Jan. 12, 2009 7:57 a.m.

about a year ago i had this discussion with a street-rodder friend at work. he informed me that the GM EOS shortage was temporary, and that it is once again available. (i assume your NLA is "No Longer Available" and not "Ninjas Love Anal")

also, i think it's inaccurate to refer to the GM EOS as "snake oil". it is an additive, sure, but it's one whose use is supported by objective data rather than infomercial testimonials.

sachilles Reader
Jan. 12, 2009 7:58 a.m.

Rover guys use it religiously. I know I used it on mine, with great results. Some claim the Zinc helps seals maintain their integrity. Wal-mart usually sells it for a good price too.

Gearhead_42 HalfDork
Jan. 12, 2009 7:59 a.m.

I used it as my "cleanout" oil when I was first running my transplanted JDM engine... worked wonders on the innards for the first few hours of run-in and tuning.

I changed over to 15W-50 Mobil 1 for use in anger though...

RXBeetle New Reader
Jan. 12, 2009 8:54 a.m.

Yeah, EOS is the real deal, but it's an oil so it falls into the snake oil category in my head.

spitfirebill wrote: Diesel rated oil has more detergrent than gasoline type. I've read speculation it may be too much for flat tappet motors. And the recent formulations of Rotella have less ZDDP. The whole oil issue is making my head hurt. I did notice motorcycle oil the other day at Advance Auto that was rated SH, which should have more ZDDP. Anybody know why you shouldn't use motorcycle oil in a car?

Charles Navarro does a whole bunch of high end Porsche engine work to the point of developing his own ceramic lifters and all aluminum cylinders. He's been testing all sorts of different oils for flat tapped air cooled motors. All the new regulations have pushed ZDDP levels below 1000 ppm, apparently 1200-1400 is much much better for a flat tappet motor. As I said earlier he was suggesting Mobil 1 V-twin 20W50 except that it's not cheap and not safe to run below 20F Brad Penn racing oil is a partial synthetic that is also apparently good enough for flat tappet motors and is pretty cheap (<$5/qt.)

Jan. 12, 2009 9:10 a.m.

according to autozone.com, Shell Rotella-T is available as a 15w40 and a straight 30wt, both at $13.49 per gallon. also available is a 5w40 synthetic version at $19.99 per gallon.

since learning of the potential danger to flat-tappet engines due to reduced ZDDP, i use the conventional 15w40 in all my non-roller engines.

RXBeetle New Reader
Jan. 12, 2009 9:53 a.m.

If you are real concerned you could get your oil tested for some reassurance. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

daytonaer New Reader
Jan. 12, 2009 11:19 a.m.
AngryCorvair wrote: about a year ago i had this discussion with a street-rodder friend at work. he informed me that the GM EOS shortage was temporary, and that it is once again available. (i assume your NLA is "No Longer Available" and not "Ninjas Love Anal") also, i think it's inaccurate to refer to the GM EOS as "snake oil". it is an additive, sure, but it's one whose use is supported by objective data rather than infomercial testimonials.

I just read in a prime-media rag about the GM Zn additive. It is not actually NLA (NLS?) they simply changed the part number and the bottle label. So the old number is not available, but the stuff is still being made. I believe they also changed the part numbers on their limited slip additive, just for fun.

try 88862586

spitfirebill
spitfirebill HalfDork
Jan. 12, 2009 1:10 p.m.

You can also get too much ZDDP in your engine too, which really makes it interesting. I have a newly rebuilt Spitfire engine on a stand at home waiting for me to get my butt in gear and finish it and fire it up. Apparently the zinc issue is mostly with breaking in a newly rebuilt motor. Great! I have the comp cam additive for the initial breakin and four qts of older Rotella T for the first 1,000 mile change. Then I guess I may use the motorcycle oil and end the world. I have to go to the Dr shortly so "he can discuss my latest PSA test results", so it may not make any difference any way.

Jensenman SuperDork
Jan. 12, 2009 3:45 p.m.

Oh boy. PSA test results. Good luck, dude.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill HalfDork
Jan. 13, 2009 8:31 a.m.
Jensenman wrote: Oh boy. PSA test results. Good luck, dude.

Numbers were high, that's why they called me in (I already knew that). They took another sample. If they are high too, they do a biopsy. Oh happy happy joy joy. I just thought a colonscopy was bad.

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