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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Are gas welders a viable option?

May 4, 2009 9:44 a.m. NBS2005 Dork

I want to start welding and while taking a class is great, I know I just need to jump in and practice, practice, practice!

My budget is E36 M3. And I know from researching the topic, budget electric welders are E36 M3 (under $250). So what about gas? From what I've been able to gather, $250 will get you a pretty nice set-up (Yes, there is the monthly bottle rental to include).

So what can you do with gas? Can you fab parts (suspension)? Could you (and would you) build a cage? Any and all feedback is appreciated.
May 4, 2009 10:15 a.m. Kramer Reader

I'd save for a mig if I were you. I bought a mig about 20 years ago, and it's one of the most useful tools I own. While a tig would be good for some things, the mig is more universal and easier to learn from.

I think you'll only be dissatisifed with a gas welder.
May 4, 2009 10:22 a.m. aircooled SuperDork

A mig is far more practical for use, but you will learn much more with a gas welder.

To break it down so that a Miata can be used in the answer: An Oldsmobuick would likely be a much more practical car for daily use, but you will learn a lot more about driving with a Miata.

If you want to learn - gas. If you want to weld stuff - Mig.
May 4, 2009 10:37 a.m. CGLockRacer New Reader

aircooled wrote:

A mig is far more practical for use, but you will learn much more with a gas welder.

To break it down so that a Miata can be used in the answer: An Oldsmobuick would likely be a much more practical car for daily use, but you will learn a lot more about driving with a Miata.

If you want to learn - gas. If you want to weld stuff - Mig.

That belongs in the magazine for sure!
May 4, 2009 11:44 a.m. shuttlepilot New Reader

i disagree. If you are going to learn gas but be warned you are going to burn up a lot of stuff while learning. Don't learn on the car you need to fix! Sheetmetal is not very forgiving.

I would pick MIG if I were you.
May 4, 2009 12:16 p.m. 44Dwarf Reader

Gas Welding will help perpare you for making art work like TIG welds later in life. You'll learn how to push a puddle and form those nice burms you see on things like bike frames.

Gas set up is also usefull as it can cut and heat too.

I'n a purfect shop you have 4 set ups. 1) Oxy-propane torch (acetalines a pain and here you need permit, propanes a little cooler but less $$) 2) MIG w/gas 3) ARC welder for heavy deep penatration jobs . 4) Tig for Alum and work that will be visable art work.

44 I still need #4 but can use it at work now that we have the air filter units.
May 4, 2009 7:27 p.m. RobL Reader

I have a gas and a MIG. The MIG does 97% of the welding. The gas, 95% of the heavy cutting.

I picked up the MIG for $400 and used gasless wire for a while. Switched to MIG w/gas and hate going back (there are certain times when hauling a gas tank around is more trouble than it's worth).

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920569000P?keyword=mig

And don't forget the cost of the safety gear. If you go with a MIG, get a self darkening helmet and good gloves.
May 4, 2009 8:19 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

Jessie James (the biker formerly married to a porn star, currently married to a movie star, not his distant kin) said on one episode that if you learn gas welding, you can do it all. He's a good welder, if you look at his stuff.

I have oxy-acetlylene, MIG and SMAW (stick). For welding, I use MIG up to 1/8", maybe a tad more approaching 1/4" on some stuff like carbon steel, and SMAW if it is big and absolutely has to stay together. I will cut with the gas, and very rarely use it for welding ('cause I suck at gas welding), but mostly for heating something up with the rose bud tip.

I sub out stuff that needs TIG. The chicken plant manufacturer I use will TIG pretty cheap. I've had them do 304 exhaust manifolds/headders and aluminum intake parts.

A self darkening HF hood is a must, in my opinion. My welding improved 100% with that.
May 4, 2009 11:12 p.m. kb58 New Reader

NBS2005 wrote: So what can you do with gas? Can you fab parts (suspension)? Could you (and would you) build a cage? Any and all feedback is appreciated.

Of course you can - look at the original Lotus Super Seven, completely brazed together. Motorcycle frames are also brazed. Gas setups can work just fine and are good for other things, too. They can cut plate and lossen bastard-tight bolts, something electric welders can't do.

Yeah, I do have a TIG setup, but I also have a gas setup for the other stuff.

People build airplanes with gas welding, you'll be fine, really.
May 4, 2009 11:59 p.m. Taiden New Reader

How would a newbie go about learning how to weld? I don't even know where to begin. I want to be able to weld things like custom motor mounts, exhaust systems, turbo manifolds, headers, install quarter panel replacements etc.
May 5, 2009 6:13 a.m. RedS13Coupe Reader

Dr. Hess wrote: A self darkening HF hood is a must, in my opinion. My welding improved 100% with that.

I really dig the HF mask. At the school shop they have a rack of "higher quality" auto darkening makes, but I generally still bring in the HF one when I can remember to.

it has two settings for how fast it un-dims if you are starting/stopping or will be accidentally blocking your view its pretty handy. It also lets you set the darkness level, so you can really see what your doing for light work, and really protect your eyes for heavy stuff.

Gas is slow, but really a lot of fun. Mig is my least favorite welding, but damn handy and probably the most versatile. Just avoid flux core.
May 5, 2009 6:20 a.m. Josh HalfDork

Taiden wrote:

Taiden wrote:

install quarter panel replacements etc.

HAHA, somebody just bought a civic!
May 5, 2009 7:54 a.m. RobL Reader

Taiden wrote:

How would a newbie go about learning how to weld? I don't even know where to begin. I want to be able to weld things like custom motor mounts, exhaust systems, turbo manifolds, headers etc.

Buy a welder. Buy some scrap steel. Make some art projects. My local VoTech school offered a night class, so you can look there.
May 5, 2009 8:18 a.m. Jensenman SuperDork

An auto dim helmet is the shizznit. MIG is so versatile that's the way I'd go. Gas shielded is the best MIG but if you don't mind some cleanup (spatter/smoke) flux core works well. Just be sure to have good ventilation, I generally run a fan behind me to blow the fumes away. The great thing about flux core is that you don't have to worry about running out of gas in the middle of a project on a Sunday afternoon and you have to drive the car to work Monday. If you want to run gas, I'd keep a roll of flux core just as a backup.

You can probably find a decent used MIG on CL etc. I too recommend just getting some scrap stuff and practicing. Start with thicker stuff (1/8" or better) and experiment with amperage and wire speed, then work your way up to the thinner stuff. 20-22 gauge sheet can be successfully welded by a non-pro welder, but I don't recommend starting with it.
May 5, 2009 9:22 a.m. cwh Dork

I consider myself to be a decent welder and strongly suggest the Vo-Tech school idea. Done it twice. Not expensive, usually good instructors that are happy to not be dealing with a bunch of rowdy teens, and you are working with somebody elses equipment. They usually start you on gas, then stick, then MIG. Not TIG until they see you have the basics under control. You get to work on all types of equipment and can then better make a decision what you want to buy. Also, check the local welding supply houses. They will frequently have repaired, refurb units for sale, even trade-in's, with a warranty. Good luck!
May 5, 2009 9:59 a.m. Taiden New Reader

Josh wrote:

Taiden wrote:

Taiden wrote:

install quarter panel replacements etc.

HAHA, somebody just bought a civic!

LOL. See Haiku thread for more details.

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