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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Automatic trans track car? - don't laugh - LOOKING FOR DIRECTION

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May 18, 2011 2:41 p.m. mthomson22 None

OK Guys, Like the title states - I'm contemplating building an auto tranny track day/autocross toy.

Reasoning behind the auto http://www.miata.net/motm/2007/thomson.html

'Well, you have the Miata' clamors the masses. Truth be told I'd like to try a tin roof. And after a few years of development with the Miata I'm ready for a new project. I've considered E30's, RX7's, and similar. Actually just picked up an '88 325i convertible as a cruiser.

I'd like something a little more obscure. Say a MK1 Golf or similar. My main question regarding any suggestion would be the 'stoutness' of the trans. I don't want to start with a known to be fragile box.

I'm not going to win any on track competition, this I know. But I am going to get out there and try it.

My vision would be a street legal, gutted, 2 door, fwd likely, 4 cylinder, w/power steering and brakes. Oh - and preferably not something too low - the Miata is already difficult at times to get back out of.

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

many thanks auto brethren, mark
May 18, 2011 2:52 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

Why not something like a C4 coupe? Easy to find with an auto box, does pretty well on the track. Might be too low though, I'd say a Miata is easier to get out of thanks to the high sill on the C4.
May 18, 2011 2:54 p.m. neon4891 SuperDork

Going against your fwd/4cly/2door, I would do a P71.

I'm not too certain of what small FWD auto transaxels would hold up well to racing, but some part of me says Dodge Shadow.
May 18, 2011 2:55 p.m. pres589 Dork

Yeah, C4 or Camaro seem like good options, maybe a Focus?
May 18, 2011 2:56 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

Forget FWD 4-bangers, if you want to race an auto, there can only be one answer: RWD V8.

Mustang GT or Camaro/Firebird for you. Both came with excellent auto boxes back in the day that are fully upgradeable. Something like a 96 Trans Am LT1 with the 4-speed auto ought to be right up your alley. Or go older for an 86 4-eye Mustang GT with the 5.0 and AOD.

If you really insist on FWD I will still talk you out of any 4-banger (torqueless and therefore useless with an auto) and steer you towards a 97-02 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Coupe. 3.8L V6 Supercharged (based on the almighty GNX engine), torque out the wazoo, and actually a decent size.

All automatic rotaries suck BTW.
May 18, 2011 2:59 p.m. Conquest351 Reader

neon4891 wrote:

P71

Yeah, this.

The transmission coolers on these things is enormous and so is the pan. LOL Get a reputable transmission builder to go through it and beef it up a little more and you should be good to go.
May 18, 2011 2:59 p.m. mndsm SuperDork

I would agree with the F-body thing. I've been able to get out of one pretty easily.... much moreso than a c4 vette. Otherwise, I know there's TONS of development on turbo DSM's, and no one wants the FWD ones, and they sure as hell don't want the autos, so they should be cheap.
May 18, 2011 3:07 p.m. pres589 Dork

I'm the proud owner of a newly acquired SN95-type Mustang GT and I think that unless you get warm feelings about spending the book value of your car on suspension pieces, I would skip the Fox and SN95 Mustangs and go to a Camaro. I think the rest of the Mustang is superior to the Camaro for daily use but if I were taking the thing to the track, I'd get the Camaro/Firebird/Trans Am instead.

I'm also the proud owner of an Olds Intrigue, a W-body cousin to the Grand Prix, and the idea of racing the thing makes me ill.
May 18, 2011 3:10 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

Conquest351 wrote:

neon4891 wrote:

P71

Yeah, this.

The transmission coolers on these things is enormous and so is the pan. LOL Get a reputable transmission builder to go through it and beef it up a little more and you should be good to go.

Well agreed, but it doesn't need the trans gone through. A simplie "j-mod" to the valve body is all that's needed, along with a tuner to change shift points.

Funnily enough a P71 is lighter than a GT-R, Challenger, and a Camaro. Makes you think...
May 18, 2011 3:12 p.m. WilberM3 HalfDork

i've enjoyed autocrossing the Jeep with the auto trans. makes left foot braking a little easier, plus its a stout trans to begin with. like others have said i'm not sure i'd want to run an auto with a torqueless engine. although, i guess i can see the appeal on a little engine with a small powerband so youre not shifting all the time, its just that most fwd auto 4 banger trannies suck the soul from the engine.

i'd research what, if any, shift kits are available for the car's auto trans, for both performance and longevity.
May 18, 2011 3:13 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

pres589 wrote:

I'm the proud owner of a newly acquired SN95-type Mustang GT and I think that unless you get warm feelings about spending the book value of your car on suspension pieces, I would skip the Fox and SN95 Mustangs and go to a Camaro. I think the rest of the Mustang is superior to the Camaro for daily use but if I were taking the thing to the track, I'd get the Camaro/Firebird/Trans Am instead.

I'm also the proud owner of an Olds Intrigue, a W-body cousin to the Grand Prix, and the idea of racing the thing makes me ill.

Agreed 100% on the F-Body over the Mustang, though don't discount pre-modified cars. Mustangs with all the suspension goodies already on them are actually pretty easy to find.

As for the W-Body, you've obviously never raced a good one. We have a 10-second, totally stock looking Buick Regal GS in our club and a gaggle of 11 and 12 second GTP's. Granted, that's in a straight line, but I've seen some of the suspensions these guys can use. I think it could be a fun sleeper. Besides, the OP did ask for obscure
May 18, 2011 3:16 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

Put my vote in for a 3rd Gen Camaro with a 425hp 383 bolted to a TH350 with a manual valve body and 4.08 gears.
May 18, 2011 3:22 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

I kind of like the P71, too--lots of room for your stuff, easy to get into/out of, and you'll probably have the only one at the track. I once ran an Impala SS at Road America. That was pretty cool.
May 18, 2011 3:25 p.m. scardeal HalfDork

I autocross an automatic 350z... shh! Don't tell anyone!
May 18, 2011 3:29 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

Also, what about something newer with a twin-clutch transmission? Is that in the budget?
May 18, 2011 3:31 p.m. mthomson22 New Reader

You guys are great!! I appreciate all of the responses.

Re big V8 power, I'm partial to small cars and small engines. I know they're not fast or powerful, but I just have a weird heart felt fondness for them...hence the Miata.

Auto trannies can be made to not suck as bad as you might think. I've got a Level10 Torque Converter and some L10 suggested Valvebody mods in the Miata and it's pretty spritely.

I've seriously considered a fox body, but honestly V8 power in a track environment is a little intimidating.

I like the nimble tip toe approach over the sledgehammer way.

Budget at this point is optimistically south of $5k, but we'll see.

mark
May 18, 2011 3:34 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

350 TPI / TH350 IROC-Z. It's only 220HP or so, so it's not that intimidating!
May 18, 2011 3:36 p.m. scardeal HalfDork

Is this total build cost of $5k or initial purchase of $5k?
May 18, 2011 3:37 p.m. bluej Dork

wonder what one of the first gti's to get the DSG are going for
May 18, 2011 3:37 p.m. mthomson22 New Reader

In reply to scardeal: purchase price of $5k
May 18, 2011 3:38 p.m. digdug18 Dork

mthomson22 wrote:

You guys are great!! I appreciate all of the responses.

Re big V8 power, I'm partial to small cars and small engines. I know they're not fast or powerful, but I just have a weird heart felt fondness for them...hence the Miata.

Auto trannies can be made to not suck as bad as you might think. I've got a Level10 Torque Converter and some L10 suggested Valvebody mods in the Miata and it's pretty spritely.

I've seriously considered a fox body, but honestly V8 power in a track environment is a little intimidating.

I like the nimble tip toe approach over the sledgehammer way.

Budget at this point is optimistically south of $5k, but we'll see.

mark

$5k ain't much to build a track car on, especially if your putting those level 10 parts into it.
May 18, 2011 3:43 p.m. pres589 Dork

Z28, ZX2, or ZX3. Probably in that order as well.
May 18, 2011 3:43 p.m. mthomson22 New Reader

Just a track day/hpde car, potential use 4-8 times per year.

The Miata will remain as the main autox machine, this will just be another option to play with, experiment with, and develop over time.
May 18, 2011 3:49 p.m. mthomson22 New Reader

Hmmm the ZX2/3 option looks interesting.
May 18, 2011 4:04 p.m. pres589 Dork

Understand that the ZX2 is closely related to the mid-90's Mazda Protege and Escort GT, and the ZX3 is a Focus. Different transmissions, suspensions, etc. Both have some aftermarket support, possibly "better" with the ZX3, but if you find the right people it probably doesn't matter that much. To be honest I'd probably go with the ZX3 because I have an aversion to Mazda FWD transmissions, but that's manuals, research the automatics and see what others here think.

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