I bought an e36 m3 as a graduation gift to myself after college. I was planning on building it into a track car and doing some HPDE and eventually NASA TT with it. Then I got a job that required me to work off shifts and most weekends. Between the job, buying a house, and getting engaged, it feels like I'll never get a chance to use the car like I wanted to. It's a great car. Probably my favorite thing that I've ever driven, but I feel like I'm wasting it.
Which brings me to my issue. My fiance doesn't really care much about cars, but when we were out to dinner last week, she pointed out an e39 m5, saying how much she liked it. This got me thinking about owning one. It's always been one of my dream cars, and it seems like they're pretty close to the bottom of the depreciation curve.
I'm really conflicted. I love the idea of the m5, but I've never driven one. It's also SWMBO approved, which is a huge plus for me, and it'd be something that I could use when we eventually have kids. So what's it like to own/drive one? Would I regret selling my m3 for one? I feel like I've got a lot of unfinished business with the e36, but at the same time, the m5 might make more sense for the future.
Man. I just asked myself (and the board) this same question a month or so ago.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/time-to-buy-an-e39-m5/142338/page1/
Seems like the consensus is yes.
Whoops! I guess I should’ve searched first. My bad.
Turbine said:
Whoops! I guess I should’ve searched first. My bad.
That wasn't a "surch n00b!" at all. psteav was just letting you know that you're safe here. ;-)
so where's the build thread? we're waiting!
Just sent you a message regarding E36 things :)
Absent my ulterior motives, I do think that if an E39 M5 is your dream car, and you can find a good deal, why not? I've only ever driven a 540, but man that was a blast. Compared to my old M3, it feels a bit more livable from day to day. Not sure how much of a difference this makes to you.
Having recently gotten an e39 touring for a daily, i can say that an e39 as a toy would be an awesome idea. However, as a daily the maintenance is..... a lot. It may just be mine (bottom of the depreciation curve and had issues when i bought it), but im learning that these earned the reputation of being a maintenance queen.
However, it may be the most comfortable and capable car ive ever owned.
Own them both for a few months and sell the one you don't like.
Either is sure to appreciate if cared for.
Having not driven an example of either, I think at this point I would avoid an E39 M5 unless it was not my only option for transportation.
Great car maintenance can eat you alive. What I am getting at is they are a great 2nd or 3rd car. Not a great first.
If you buy the cheapest one you can, you will pay for it later. That's the rule for just about anything, honestly, but especially for complex machines.
The M5 is basically a four door exotic that shares a number of components with a mass market sedan. Working on it can be either fairly straightforward or very difficult, depending on the system. I would hate to have to pay someone else to take care of one, but mine has never let me down other than an unplanned battery failure. I'd be comfortable with it as a "first" car, but I'd expect to have to take care of it like it's an $80k semi-exotic and not a Camry.
Keith Tanner said:
If you buy the cheapest one you can, you will pay for it later. That's the rule for just about anything, honestly, but especially for complex machines.
The M5 is basically a four door exotic that shares a number of components with a mass market sedan. Working on it can be either fairly straightforward or very difficult, depending on the system. I would hate to have to pay someone else to take care of one, but mine has never let me down other than an unplanned battery failure. I'd be comfortable with it as a "first" car, but I'd expect to have to take care of it like it's an $80k semi-exotic and not a Camry.
That's basically the same for any post-2000 model German performance vehicle. They require on-time, proper maintenance with quality parts. Letting one system go degrades another, etc. I know you are well aware of this.
I just pre-emptively replaced the batter in the '13 135i. No check engine light, but when they pulled codes there were some low voltage faults, and it was the original battery that came with the car.
OP, as long as you go in knowing these aren't "keep gas and oil in it and it will be fine type vehicles" you will be fine.
Thanks for all the feedback! This really is the best forum/community I’ve been a part of.
For a little more background, I guess:
Thankfully, this won’t be my only car. I’ve got a 4th gen 4Runner that I drive daily. I’m also used to needier cars, and thorough maintenance. I daily drove a high mileage urs6 most of the way through college (I’m actually selling it this week), and I’ve been slowly working my way through my m3. I’ve been trying to address all of the major issues, and taking care of the ‘while you’re in there’ stuff as I go. Scope creep gets me every time.
I’m a little worried that I’m not skilled enough to take on s62 maintenance though. I never really got a chance to play with cars as a kid, and now that I finally have a garage and some tools, I’ve been trying to do and learn everything I can. I’ve done some larger jobs (injectors on an LB7 duramax, knock sensors and intake manifold gaskets on my m3, struts and shocks on a friend’s focus) but nothing too crazy when it comes to engine work.
My ADHD has also had me looking at e46 m3’s as kind of a compromise between the two.
As long as you're not in a rush to get a job done, it sounds like there shouldn't be much you can't tackle on an E39. Some jobs might take a while as you work up the learning curve, but if having the car in pieces for a few days doesn't matter, those jobs get a lot easier.
All of these responses are contributing to my urge to sell my E34 Touring. It's not really good as an only car, and I'm just too much of a cheapass by nature to do ALL the preventative maintenance.
If you're too cheap to do preventative maintenance, just keep buying used Camrys.
Turbine, I will say that working on the S62 is advanced level wrenching. That engine was only used in the M5 and the Z8, and it's pretty clear that BMW relaxed a number of their accessibility requirements on the engineering team. It's nowhere near as easy to deal with as a lot of other cars. It's quite likely you'll have to service the VANOS on the S62, and that's something like 12 hours of work with some fun problem solving along the way. That's an M5 specific thing, the other E39s are easier.
Step 1 in changing the rear struts on all E39s is "remove the rear interior light". You basically have to tear down the back half of the car. But a fuel pump is super-easy. Like I said, some systems are simple and some are very much not. The good news is that the E39 M5 community is much more DIY oriented than it was when I got mine. The car wasn't well documented by BMW.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
My neighbor has an e39 m5 and I’ve driven it. I used to have an e36 m3. Yes the extra size and weight of the m5 are readily felt, but I love the car. A beautiful dark green over tan leather. His has a few common mods- tune, exhaust, wheels. The best way I can describe it is to say it has great road presence, so not lithe and nimble, but very solid and smooth. Handles well for heavier car, I mean, you aren’t going to autox or track it are you? I love rolling into throttle of this wonderful v8. It has great sound and power. My neighbor is an engineer and a maintenance hawk. The car is reliable; he drives it almost everyday. Has most work done by a local Indy BMW shop. Still pretty expensive. Like me he is older (60s) and he has owned a lot of cars- 911, m3, m6, and he says his m5 is an absolute keeper.
Mine is a keeper too. It's a very different feel than an M3, but it's a superlative consumer of interstates, especially the twisty ones.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Thanks for the advice. It still seems intimidating, but it sounds like the car is absolutely worth it. Generally, as long as there’s a halfway decent procedure, I can work my way through things. Reading through Beisan’s s62 VANOS and chain guide procedure was a bit of a shock, but given enough time I feel as though I could handle it
Thankfully, my 4Runner is as reliable as gravity, so I can afford to be without the car for a while if the worst happens. There are also a couple good indy BMW shops in Columbus that I can bring it to if I really mess things up.
Turbine said:
Thanks for all the feedback! This really is the best forum/community I’ve been a part of.
For a little more background, I guess:
Thankfully, this won’t be my only car. I’ve got a 4th gen 4Runner that I drive daily. I’m also used to needier cars, and thorough maintenance. I daily drove a high mileage urs6 most of the way through college (I’m actually selling it this week), and I’ve been slowly working my way through my m3. I’ve been trying to address all of the major issues, and taking care of the ‘while you’re in there’ stuff as I go. Scope creep gets me every time.
I’m a little worried that I’m not skilled enough to take on s62 maintenance though. I never really got a chance to play with cars as a kid, and now that I finally have a garage and some tools, I’ve been trying to do and learn everything I can. I’ve done some larger jobs (injectors on an LB7 duramax, knock sensors and intake manifold gaskets on my m3, struts and shocks on a friend’s focus) but nothing too crazy when it comes to engine work.
My ADHD has also had me looking at e46 m3’s as kind of a compromise between the two.
An E46 M3 isn't going to be any cheaper on maintenance than an E39 M5. Especially when you factor in paying attention to the rod bearings.
Outside of the VANOS stuff, which I never liked to mess with because of setting the cam timing properly, it's mainly getting stuff out of the way to work on what needs fixing.
It's the "getting stuff out of the way" aspect that's challenging. Trying to figure out how to get the driver's side valve cover off once it's unbolted requires a fourth dimension - and it's harder to put back on. You spend a lot of time trying to figure out access and occasionally fabricating custom tools. This isn't unique to the M5 - I had to build a custom tool to deal with a leaky oil filter adapter on the classic 4.0 Jeep engine - but it's more frequent.
So maybe I’m just naive and overconfident, but I think I’ve talked myself into the m5. One more question though, of the various troubleshooting software for the car (INPA, DIS, ISTA/D) which do you use/prefer?
Also, it looks like I’ll be putting my m3 up for sale. In case anyone’s in the market for a track prepped coupe, it’ll be on the open classifieds soon! I’d love to see it go to a GRMer
Also, what other resources do you guys use? I saw the Bentley doesn’t cover the s62 at all, but I’ll probably still grab one for the general stuff. Is the TIS DVD worth getting? I haven’t found a Bentley-type manual that covers m5 specific things yet. Does one even exist?
I use a Peake reader most of the time. I’ve logged into the ibus in the past but it’s been years since I used that. I’ve also got the hardware and software to use the BMW software - I forget the acronym - but have never needed to set it up.
I have the regular E39 manual and I don’t think I have any M5 specific documentation. I’ve relied on forums and plain old figurin’ out for the S62 stuff.
