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Did you hear? They made MIRROR's mandatory. Those bastages. I can crane my neck just FINE thanks! I don't need no stinkin mirrors, the reflection is distracting.
The truth is, with the beltlines of new vehicles as high as they are, a surprisingly large child can easily be invisible to the driver. No, I DON'T like current beltlines, but it is what it is. (Current DD's are: old impreza, E30, VW Golf...all with lots of glass and great visibility)
Drove a Prius recently with a back up camera.
I found it pretty distracting.
alfadriver wrote:IIRC, we vote for the people who write the laws....
Nah, we vote for the people who do hookers and blow while lobbyists write the laws.
I don't have a problem with them fundamentally, just the mandatory part. if people want to offer them, fine, but unless I really need one, I don't want the added expense and potential failure.
What I do have a problem with is making vehicles where it is really needed. We just got a new F-150 last week, and if our 2010 model wasn't big enough, the 2011 took care of that. It's the same truck really, but it's even taller and harder to see out of. I absolutely hate driving it as it's such a waste. There are some things that are good about it, but I'd take a bullet in the brain rather than drive it on a daily basis.
I'm sure trucks like this are the driving force behind needing cameras, but coherent design would fix most of those problems.
alfadriver wrote:MA$$hole wrote:When will better driver education be mandatory? If you can't stay in your own lane, park your own car, remember to use your mirror, blah blah blah; you probably shouldn't be on the road to begin with.
When you make it to be.
IIRC, we vote for the people who write the laws....
when my choices are a turd sandwhich and a gian duesh (sp?) i dont have much faith that they will ever do what normal people want them to.
I'd like to have cameras mounted on the nose and tail of my car, but I want them pointed sideways. Then, I'll be able to see around giant SUVs and vans when I back out of a parking spot or pull into traffic.
i don't see why they have to be mandatory, so long as they're available. they don't even have to alter the center stack to offer a camera either, ford has started putting them in the rearview mirror, so you can look behind you, and look at the camera as well.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:EXACTLY. A friend has one in his Chrysler and it makes it nice when backing up to the trailer by yourself. You can see the ball. He loves it. It is great use of technology.
i wish my SS had one for just for that purpose, but then being aware of the size of my vehicle and it being an SUV i can just open the hatch and look out the back so its not like a big truck. but i dont really want a big stupid LCD screen in my dash which is part of the reason i didnt buy the SS i looked at with the indash nav, which doesnt have a camera option anyway.
Strizzo wrote: ford has started putting them in the rearview mirror, so you can look behind you, and look at the camera as well.
Is the camera view reversed like the mirror view, or is it regular? Never having seen one in real life I've wondered about that...after using a rear view mirror for nearly 40 years, I think it may be tricky to adapt to a screen displaying things that aren't backwards.
stuart in mn wrote:Strizzo wrote: ford has started putting them in the rearview mirror, so you can look behind you, and look at the camera as well.Is the camera view reversed like the mirror view, or is it regular? Never having seen one in real life I've wondered about that...after using a rear view mirror for nearly 40 years, I think it may be tricky to adapt to a screen displaying things that aren't backwards.
Nope not reversed. But you don't really notice it once you've used it a few times.
alfadriver wrote: Considering how many things are far more repulsive out there, this is a pretty lame fight. It's a supplument that works. Do you not like the CHMSL, too, since it's mandatory? Or white front lights, or bumpers, or catalysts, or- etc etc etc.I agree that on the whole this is not the most important issue.
then again, so few of this board buy new cars, it does give one pause.
Eric
I don't find the cameras repulsive. I find the thought that they might become mandatory repulsive. Making them madatory is a waster of time and money and not what I want the government to be doing with my tax dollars. Out of your lists, I'm good with catalysts because they have a direct effect on pollution which is everyone's problem. The other stuff I don't see a need for laws at all. If a 3rd brake light is really better and people want them the manufacturers will put them in cars without a law. (I had to google CHMSL BTW). I could use one of those fancy cameras in my E-150 van. Rearward visibility is tough while backing out of a parking space. I could also put a beeper on it like a truck. There are a lot of things I could do. Why does someone in DC have to make the choice for me?
stuart in mn wrote:Strizzo wrote: ford has started putting them in the rearview mirror, so you can look behind you, and look at the camera as well.Is the camera view reversed like the mirror view, or is it regular? Never having seen one in real life I've wondered about that...after using a rear view mirror for nearly 40 years, I think it may be tricky to adapt to a screen displaying things that aren't backwards.
guess so, never thought about it, but now that i do, all of the cars with backup cameras had them reversed, otherwise a car approaching from your right would enter the screen from the left, making it seem as if it were coming from the other direction. guess i've never bothered to try reading something on the backup camera...
MA$$hole wrote:When will better driver education be mandatory? If you can't stay in your own lane, park your own car, remember to use your mirror, blah blah blah; you probably shouldn't be on the road to begin with.
THIS x INFINITY.
Just like I check my tire pressure regularly and don't need some stupid sensors that tell me when my tires are low (and add cost to every tire change), I also check my mirrors and actually physically turn my head around and look with my eyes at what's behind me while backing the car up. What if the camera stops working? Will people just stay home, or drive forward through obstacles? If people actually learned how to operate a motor vehicle the way they were supposed to and continued to drive that way after receiving their license, this wouldn't happen.
Yeah, and next time the government puts these ever-changing driving regulations on the ballot, I'll voice my opinion. As far as I know, it's never been on a ballot.
It doesn't matter who is in office (TPMS legislation happened under the Bush administration, and now this stupid crap is under Obama's administration), the stupidity just keeps inching closer to the level of that prophetic glimpse into the future, the movie Idiocracy. I should start investing in sports drink companies that use electrolytes in their formulas. 
alfadriver wrote:Between your side mirrors and your rear view mirror, you can see below the rear window and the road? Like where the rear bumper is?
Didn't think so.
The cameras I've used, they show to the bumper, including the hitch. There are views that you can't see behind you regardless of the mirrors you have.
And since you think you can, I'm glad you don't dive anywhere near me.
Clearly you missed the context of the whole post. Something I knew was going to happen to someone that loves to give knee jerk, I know better then you reactions.
I used some learned mechanical skills to fix something on those Caravans, but first I had to get them back to my service bay. First thing I have to do is either move the steering wheel or seat to squeeze into the driver's seat. I know I am not the normal crash test dummy size, but look out the mirrors in these vehicles. Most of the mirrors aren't even close to watching what is important while driving. I either am looking at the sky, somewhere about the rear bumper, down the body panel side looking at the ground, or the kids in the back seat. Exactly how is a backup camera going to fix that?
I am glad you don't drive here either.
Strizzo wrote:i don't see why they have to be mandatory, so long as they're available.
There was a case about 2 years ago where someone backed over their own kid. They sued Nissan because the model of car they had did not have a camera when other Nissans had one. They felt that Nissan was at fault because "they had the technology and did not use it" Go figure
Datsun1500 wrote:Strizzo wrote:i don't see why they have to be mandatory, so long as they're available.
There was a case about 2 years ago where someone backed over their own kid. They sued Nissan because the model of car they had did not have a camera when other Nissans had one. They felt that Nissan was at fault because "they had the technology and did not use it" Go figure
^^This is the real reason why it will become mandatory^^
Now someone should ask them if it was available, would they have purchased it? (I know hindsight is 20/20 besides they will answer sure they would, disprove it) They should have bought a model that did have it or purchase an aftermarket one. Since they wouldn't spend the money on a model that had it what makes it that they would have opted for the option on the model they did buy. The technology is out there and they didn't use it either. An aftermarket version cost the same or more likely less than a factory installed. Personally, I think they have a valid purpose but don't think they should be mandatory.
In reply to wlkelley3:
Actually I found the case. It was on the model they bought... at a higher trim level... They chose not to spend the $$
alfadriver wrote:.
And why is a back up camera so bad? Having seen what they are capable of, I'm pretty sure my next MIATA will have one. They are pretty sweet.
it's not bad per se.
what is bad is it being a requirement. I've never backed into anything, and have no problem seeing what's behind me. I have no desire to pay for more crap on my car that I don't need. I already have to pay for TPMS thanks to the government.
stuart in mn wrote:I'd like to have cameras mounted on the nose and tail of my car, but I want them pointed sideways. Then, I'll be able to see around giant SUVs and vans when I back out of a parking spot or pull into traffic.
take a look at a last-generation 4Runner (not sure if the new ones have it or not).....no camera needed. It has convex mirrors mounted inside the upper rear corners of the cargo area. Look in your rearview at one of the mirrors, it shows you everything that is coming down the parking row AND anything directly behind the vehicle. Inexpensive, no maintenance, no chance it will break, works exactly as it its' supposed to. Another little detail that makes me love the Toyota.
irish44j wrote:stuart in mn wrote:I'd like to have cameras mounted on the nose and tail of my car, but I want them pointed sideways. Then, I'll be able to see around giant SUVs and vans when I back out of a parking spot or pull into traffic.
take a look at a last-generation 4Runner (not sure if the new ones have it or not).....no camera needed. It has convex mirrors mounted inside the upper rear corners of the cargo area. Look in your rearview at one of the mirrors, it shows you everything that is coming down the parking row AND anything directly behind the vehicle. Inexpensive, no maintenance, no chance it will break, works exactly as it its' supposed to. Another little detail that makes me love the Toyota.
Really? That's awesome. Good on Toyota 
