WonkoTheSane Reader
May 27, 2015 2:11 p.m.

I need new brakes for the Rx-8 (2007). For the most part, the car is used to drive 12 miles to work and 3 days a week it drops the kids off at daycare. I'm planning on hitting two track days next month, and then it'll hopefully be retired from track duty as the Rx-7 takes over.

Last year, I had it on a completely open track day (no run groups!), and I experienced some fade and not-happiness out of my Hawk HPS pads. I know the pads aren't made for that kind of abuse, but it was one of those, "Hey do you want to come down to tomorrow to this open track day? Heck yeah I do!" kinda things.

Are the EBC Redstuff any better for this application? I'd like to get at least 20k out of a set of pads, which the Hawks have done fine for..

What's the hive say?

JtspellS SuperDork
May 27, 2015 2:44 p.m.

Color me interested.....

May 27, 2015 2:47 p.m.

I seem to recall a bunch of guys recommending Porterfield for track day type stuff.

May 27, 2015 2:59 p.m.

I have EBC Redstuff front brake pads for my E36, but I haven't been on a track day with it.

tomtomgt356 New Reader
May 27, 2015 3:01 p.m.

I'm not familiar with EBC, but Hawk HP+ have worked great for me on track with street tires (200tw). I usually get 3-5 track days out of a set, depending on the tracks. They work great on track and they stop fine on the street. The only problem is that on the street they squeal a lot and produce a lot of dust.

The problem you are facing is that you are looking for something that is good on track and good on the street and there really is no such thing. Anything that is quiet on the street will fade on track and anything that is good on track will squeal on the street. From what I've read there isn't a pad that is good for both.

Have you considered getting a set of track pads and a set of street pads? Use the track pads for the two events you have then pull them off and put them on the shelf. That way, if you can't finish the 7 in time for an event you can swap pads on the 8 and it will be ready as a backup track car.

bgkast UltraDork
May 27, 2015 3:17 p.m.

The HP+ on my Miata have worked out for street and track day duty. Noisy and dusty on the street though.

BoxheadTim UltimaDork
May 27, 2015 3:25 p.m.

For track use, you want EBC yellow, not red. That is, if you want EBC at all...

I'm running EBC yellow on the MR2, but that't because I couldn't get Hawk HP+. I'm not a big fan of EBC but they seem to work in the sense that they stop the car, dust up the wheels and squeal when used on the street . If I'm looking for a dual use pad and can get HP+, those are the ones I buy.

bgkast UltraDork
May 27, 2015 3:30 p.m.

FWIW on my Midlana (which uses Miata brakes) I will be using different pads for the street and track. The Hawks are just too squeeky and dusty for my taste.

WonkoTheSane Reader
May 27, 2015 3:50 p.m.
tomtomgt356 wrote: The problem you are facing is that you are looking for something that is good on track and good on the street and there really is no such thing. Anything that is quiet on the street will fade on track and anything that is good on track will squeal on the street. From what I've read there isn't a pad that is good for both.

Yep, that's exactly the problem, which is why I'm asking the hive, you guys know everything :)

I'd prefer to not buy a second set of pads (and rotors to go along with that compound), as not only am I (slowly) building the 7 to be a track biatch, I also have another kid on the way AND I race with a few teams @ Chump and probably LeMons, soon, so really, it's fairly unlikely to get the 8 back on track (at least for this year) and that's an extra $300 that's just sitting on the shelf that I'll probably never use.

Turboeric New Reader
May 27, 2015 6:25 p.m.

If you're only just experiencing fade with HPS, then the new Hawk Street/Race pads will work fine for you. They're streetable ('though somewhat dusty) and will stand up to light duty track work. For the use you describe, these will work fine.

WonkoTheSane Reader
May 27, 2015 8:34 p.m.

Are they actually called "street/race" pads, or are you talking about HP+? I've used the HP+ before, a fine track pad but pretty squeaky.

I just realized that I completely forgot the MAIN reason to only have one set of pads/rotors! If I can get away with one set, then it comes out of the maintenance fund, if I have to get a second set, that's gotta come out of the racing budget!

Turboeric New Reader
May 28, 2015 8:48 a.m.

Yes, they are called street/race, and aren't HP+.

GameboyRMH MegaDork
May 28, 2015 9:05 a.m.

I got EBC Yellowstuff for "streetable track" pads, they'll work but don't expect them to be clean or quiet.

docwyte Dork
May 28, 2015 9:08 a.m.

I wouldn't consider HP+ to be track pads, not even by a long stretch. They don't handle heat really well and will flash fade on you.

Then they also totally suck as street pads, very noisy and dusty.

There really isn't a good "one pad, do it all" out there. Closest I've come is the Ferodo DS2500 and you still need to be careful with those.

Of course my cars have all been 3200lb 350-500hp animals, so your experience may vary if you have a tiny little car powered by hamsters.

WonkoTheSane Reader
May 28, 2015 9:56 a.m.
docwyte wrote: Then they also totally suck as street pads, very noisy and dusty. Of course my cars have all been 3200lb 350-500hp animals, so your experience may vary if you have a tiny little car powered by hamsters.

Yeah, I'm closer to the hamster-end of the spectrum, the Rx-8 generates 240 HP on a good day and ~5 lb/ft of torques, but it only weighs ~2800lbs, so it's fairly lithe for a 4 door family sedan. I had the same experience with the HP+ on the streets, so I was avoiding them for that reason.

Turboeric - Have you tried them yet? I was just looking at the MU/temp maps on their site and it looks really promising. I have an email into Hawk about it.

I'm good with dust, I'd really prefer not to squeak on the street, though.

wspohn HalfDork
May 28, 2015 10:29 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I got EBC Yellowstuff for "streetable track" pads, they'll work but don't expect them to be clean or quiet.

I use Red Stuff - they are ceramic based and therefor quite low dust, but excellent fade resistance. You'd have to try them on the track to see if they were up to it; it is possible that you'd have to go with the Yellow pads and put up with the extra dust if you need those.

Modern pads seem to have wider usage windows. I'd recommend that you also look at Porterfield R series. Some of their race compounds can be used on the street and are also ceramic based. The R4-1 (vintage race compound) might be what you are looking for.

http://porterfield-brakes.com/images/portrace2008_11_06_02_43_53.pdf

bmw88rider Dork
May 28, 2015 10:48 a.m.

I was just going to say the Porterfield R4 series. I would almost think the regular R4 but the R4-1 does have a better lower temperature bite and may work better for a street/track situation. I just don't know what the wear will look like for those.

Here is the different compound information.

http://porterfield-brakes.com/images/portrace2008_11_06_02_41_04.pdf

WonkoTheSane Reader
May 28, 2015 10:58 a.m.

Huh, the 4-1s sound pretty promising. The R4s make me a bit nervous, since the temp range "starts" at 450°, I doubt I hit that tooo much on the commute. 200° for the R4-1s sound a lot more attainable/sustainable... I'll look into those as well.

Thanks Gents!

wlkelley3 SuperDork
May 28, 2015 11:49 a.m.

Have Hawk HPS on my RX8, used to autocross it till I got my Miata back from my daughter and they worked well for autocross. Can't say about track use. HPS aren't noisy and I notice only a slight increase in brake dust, maybe. Stop the car better than stock pads. I thought HPS stood for Hawk or High Performance Street and listed as street/race pads.

WonkoTheSane Reader
May 28, 2015 12:56 p.m.
wlkelley3 wrote: Have Hawk HPS on my RX8, used to autocross it till I got my Miata back from my daughter and they worked well for autocross. Can't say about track use. HPS aren't noisy and I notice only a slight increase in brake dust, maybe. Stop the car better than stock pads. I thought HPS stood for Hawk or High Performance Street and listed as street/race pads.

Yeah, I really like the HPS, I have them right now too. The problem is that I experienced some fade last time, which was admittedly an open track day without the normal 20 minute run groups, so I'm a bit hesitant to just put them on again.

Turboeric New Reader
May 28, 2015 5:14 p.m.
WonkoTheSane wrote: Turboeric - Have you tried them yet? I was just looking at the MU/temp maps on their site and it looks really promising. I have an email into Hawk about it. I'm good with dust, I'd really prefer not to squeak on the street, though.

Not personally, but I recommended them to an HPDE student who ran them for a 2 day school recently with good results. They were on a 2008 Impreza, very aggressively driven. I recommended them because street pads were fading and dying, and these held up well. There was also a thread on the RX8 forum on them recently linky

HiTempguy UberDork
May 28, 2015 6:21 p.m.

R4's squeel like mother berkeleyers, but bed-in is easy-peasy and even colding braking is pretty damn good.

I have them on the rally car because I refuse to pay $300 for a set of front pads.

Turboeric New Reader
May 28, 2015 8:16 p.m.

Hmm, I've used R4 extensively on my turbo Miata as track pads, driving them 400 Miles each way to the track, and never found them particularly noisy.

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