In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
50% failure rate on rust free units? That sucks. You definitely need that luck now. 
Make sure you never seize the new ones. You might want to get it apart again one day.
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Nov. 3, 2011 5:08 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork
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Nov. 3, 2011 5:19 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
Toyman01 wrote:
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
50% failure rate on rust free units? That sucks. You definitely need that luck now.
Make sure you never seize the new ones. You might want to get it apart again one day.
Heh, yep. I'll give it maybe an hour's worth of work tomorrow, and if no luck, i'll just have the junkyard deal with it.
The new ones are what worry me... I'm attaching very expensive custom control arms to the new ones. Hopefully they never have to come off.
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Nov. 3, 2011 5:59 p.m. Streetwiseguy Dork
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
The new ones are what worry me... I'm attaching very expensive custom control arms to the new ones. Hopefully they never have to come off.
Grease the bolts.
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Nov. 3, 2011 6:39 p.m. Raze SuperDork
Have you tried an air chisel with a sharp point attachment (think jackhammer)? Sometimes severe vibration can cause things to let go...
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Nov. 3, 2011 8:07 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork
Dude if you can't get it off with a long handle sledge, you should be able to at least bend the bolt in half. If you do that, you get +10,000 respect points with proof.
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Nov. 3, 2011 8:13 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
Raze wrote:
Have you tried an air chisel with a sharp point attachment (think jackhammer)? Sometimes severe vibration can cause things to let go...
Tried that.
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Nov. 3, 2011 8:14 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
tuna55 wrote:
Dude if you can't get it off with a long handle sledge, you should be able to at least bend the bolt in half. If you do that, you get +10,000 respect points with proof.
Heh heh heh. I know what i'm doing Saturday morning!
I could use more respect around this joint. Garaithon will be there to witness.
Bonus points if i manage to just do it with a dead blow? I get REAL cranky and stubborn when it comes to stuck bolts. As a scrawny guy, i'm proud of the fact that i've sheared off two extensions right in the middle in the junkyards.
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Nov. 3, 2011 8:32 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
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Nov. 3, 2011 9:00 p.m. Duke SuperDork
See, I think the deadblow is the wrong BFH. You need the shocking impact to jar the damn thing loose. Deadblow just provides direct motive force, not the vibration shockwave that a good 3-5 pound maul gives.
I just bought a 3-lb 16" BFH from Harbor Freight, because until now my go-to smiting device was a splitting maul, and with those when you're using the hammer side, there's an axe pointed at your face...
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Nov. 3, 2011 9:13 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader
Duke wrote:
See, I think the deadblow is the wrong BFH. You need the shocking impact to jar the damn thing loose. Deadblow just provides direct motive force, not the vibration shockwave that a good 3-5 pound maul gives.
I just bought a 3-lb 16" BFH from Harbor Freight, because until now my go-to smiting device was a splitting maul, and with those when you're using the hammer side, there's an axe pointed at your face...
Adding to this, if you by chance do need a hammer and get the warm and fuzzies about stuff that's made in the homeland - http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/VaughnGrayvik/90067.html
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Nov. 3, 2011 10:16 p.m. Shaun HalfDork
lock two nuts against each other on the thread and twist the bolt with a ginormous lever arm? Like 4' or more of pipe over a 1" drive breaker bar with the appropriate 6 point impact socket. Of course the spindle would need to be one with a equally long lever arm under the one you are jumping on.
Good Luck-
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Nov. 3, 2011 11:02 p.m. Schmidlap HalfDork
This problem looks very similar to the spindle pins on the rear suspensions of Datsun 240-280Zs. The spindle pin on the Datsuns is threaded on each end and has a nut on each end though, instead of being a bolt. Bear with me though, you can probably make this work with a bit of welding, as that's what I ended up doing on my Datsun instead of the threaded method, so it should work for you.
The prevailing wisdon on Datsun forums is that if you're going to try to press it out, don't bother trying at home or going to a car mechanic. Take it to a 4X4 shop or a heavy diesel shop, since they deal with heavier duty stuff and have larger presses. If you're going to do it at home, pulling it out works a lot better than pushing it out. What people say is happening is that when you push on the end of the pin it causes the pin to expand in the hole above the spot where it is most frozen and just jams itself in harder. Pulling it stretches the pin, contracting it away from the sides of the hole, letting it slide out easier. There are plans for making a simple removal tool that screws onto one end of the pin, but since you have a bolt that won't work very well. Here's a link to one guys version (although, honestly, I know what it should look like, and his drawing kind of confuses me). Here's a better site. Basically it's a large diameter threaded rod with a long nut to couple the threaded rod to the pin, or you can drill and tap the threaded rod to attach to the pin. A pipe is slipped over the threaded rod, then washers and a nut are put on the other end of the threaded rod. Tightening the nut pulls the pin up through the pipe. When I did mine, I needed a 3 foot breaker bar on a nut on 3/4" threaded rod. Instead of using a coupling nut on the end of mine, I welded the threaded rod directly to the spindle pin.
This tool has worked on rusted spindle pins that have resisted 20 ton presses. I haven't taken too close of a look at your situation, but hopefully you can come up with something similar, welding it to the end of your bolt and pulling your bolt out instead of pressing it out.
It's also recommended to get a paint tray or something and soak the upright/pin in PB Blaster or something similar for a few days before trying to press it or pull it out.
Good luck,
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Nov. 4, 2011 6:35 a.m. Raze SuperDork
In reply to Schmidlap:
I think for this method to work for him he's going to have to cut the bolt head off the other side based on the drawing, looks like those Datsun pins with one side having a bolt head. May be worth a try though...
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Nov. 4, 2011 8:55 a.m. Taiden Dork
I like Schmidlap's method a lot. I'd like to try it sometime. But I mostly hope I never have to try it.
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Nov. 4, 2011 9:07 a.m. 4cylndrfury SuperDork
Snap on tools - probably in the vicinity of 3 lbs ball peen hammer... the best BFH I never paid for...found it on the side of the road. Its saved my ass a few times. Ive "cold forged" several brackets and doo-dads from hardened steel rod and rebar - its a great tool. Small enough to be accurate, heavy enough to beat the e36m3 out of stuff.
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Nov. 4, 2011 9:12 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4cylndrfury wrote:
Snap on tools - probably in the vicinity of 3 lbs ball peen hammer... the best BFH I never paid for...found it on the side of the road. Its saved my ass a few times. Ive "cold forged" several brackets and doo-dads from hardened steel rod and rebar - its a great tool. Small enough to be accurate, heavy enough to beat the e36m3 out of stuff.
This is actually what i've been using. I think i've been using the wrong name for it.
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Nov. 4, 2011 9:15 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
I like Schmidlap's method, and i'll have to make something like that at some point in the future.
Bookmarked!
But at the moment, i have no welder, and i don't really have the time to make something. I've lost a good week or two of work on the car due to these spindles, and if it doesn't come out tonite with readily available things, i'm going to have to buy another pair from the junkyard. (Something i probably should have just done in the beginning for $50.)
I'd REALLY like for the car to be completed by the end of this month, because i DESPERATELY need to start work on my Celica, or else it's just going to be scrapped, and i really don't want to do that.
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Nov. 6, 2011 9:10 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
Ugh.
Sooo... the bolts didn't come out. (But i do have some pretty impressive failure pictures i need to put up.)
So yesterday morning, i called a huge insurance yard about an hour south of me. Told them what i was looking for, and told them that i would be there in about an hour's drive time. I was assured that they had what i was looking for, and it would be pulled by the time i got there.
I show up, and am greeted with "Escorts have drum brakes in the back according to our system, we don't have what you need."
Nice. 2+ hour round trip for... nothing.
Try another yard down the road. They knew what i was talking about, but didn't have it. Called another yard. Again, knew what i was talking about, but didn't have it.
Went to local Pull-A-Part. Many Escorts/Tracers, not a single one with disc rears.
DID manage to pull a set of ZX2 tubular rear trailing links that i'll send off to be modified, but still no hubs.
Sooo... all points bulletin!
I need a pair rear hub/spindle assemblies from:
91-94 Protege
91-96 Escort
91-96 TracerHas to be rear disc. I don't have tons of money until this coming friday, but willing to pay for part, shipping, and extra for time/convenience if anyone has them or can put their hands on a pair.
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Nov. 6, 2011 10:22 a.m. Taiden Dork
Post carnage pics!
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Nov. 6, 2011 10:30 a.m. Toyman01 SuperDork
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I'll try to check the local yard Monday.
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Nov. 6, 2011 10:47 a.m. stroker HalfDork
I have no experience with any of this, but I've seen cheap BFH heads shatter. Thought I'd chime in with a "make sure you're wearing safety glasses" when the high kinetic energy stuff is going on.
When you reassemble this thing, cosmoline may be your friend.
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Nov. 6, 2011 5:32 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
I have failed. Left my hoodie at the garage, and it's got the end of the bolt in it. Pics will have to come this week. Sorry guys.
Long story short, the threaded end of the bolt ended up turning into a slinky, S-curved, compacted, then sheared off and flew around the garage with a pretty epic bang.
Also: pushed the washer at the other end of the bolt over the bushing sleeve for the control arm. Pretty impressive when you figure the bushing sleeve was about an 1/8" bigger than the inner diameter of the washer.
