NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
3/20/17 1:22 p.m.

While watching the latest Project Binky video, it caught the mention that the brake lines being used were quite flexible. They did not look quite right either. Not NiCop either.

Anyone know what was being used? It there an acceptable plastic line for running brake lines?

Strizzo
Strizzo UberDork
3/20/17 1:26 p.m.

I think it was a coated steel line of some sort.

The0retical
The0retical Dork
3/20/17 1:31 p.m.
Strizzo wrote: I think it was a coated steel line of some sort.

It sort of looked like AGS Poly Armour brake line but I'm far from an expert and it's not really flexible per say. I went looking too after I saw that.

Like so.

That might be the way I go for the RX-3's brake system.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/20/17 1:32 p.m.

Something like this - second one down?

http://www.bmrs.net/PTFE_sb_hose_01.html

Personally, I prefer as much hard line as possible for minimum expansion under pressure, but building it all out of flex does make life a lot easier.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
3/20/17 1:55 p.m.

I remember the guys at Exomotive found that there was no noticeable difference between a car that had traditional hard lines and one that had all SS braided lines.

dculberson
dculberson PowerDork
3/20/17 1:56 p.m.

The Poly-Armor stuff is easy to work with. I ran fuel and brake lines using it on my old Chevy pickup, which had rusted through its second set of lines in 20 years.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
3/20/17 2:39 p.m.

Which lines are you asking about?

I'm pretty sure the lines run under the car are the coated steel hard lines The0retical linked.

The rats nest of hoses between the master cylinders and the reservoirs look like what Keith linked.

EvanB
EvanB UltimaDork
3/20/17 2:47 p.m.

The fuel lines were aluminum hard lines. The brake lines were all coated stainless braid teflon hose like Keith linked.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/20/17 3:01 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: I remember the guys at Exomotive found that there was no noticeable difference between a car that had traditional hard lines and one that had all SS braided lines.

That's the marketing line IIRC, Warren felt the extra squishiness wasn't enough to be a problem, but "no noticeable difference" wasn't quite how he put it. I suspect the very stiff firewall of the Exocet means you trade off a bit of spring rate in the lines for a bit of spring rate in the firewall and it all comes out even. We'll be building our next Exocet with steel hard lines again, it's really not that difficult.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
3/20/17 3:39 p.m.

Reason I ask is that the traditional SS lines are not legal in Ontario according to my mechanic friend. Not sure I would run them on a street car as the braid picks up a lot of road grime over time and this can be abrasive on the inner liner.

I thought what they were using on Binky was something else altogether.

Jumper K. Balls
Jumper K. Balls UberDork
3/20/17 3:51 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: Reason I ask is that the traditional SS lines are not legal in Ontario according to my mechanic friend. Not sure I would run them on a street car as the braid picks up a lot of road grime over time and this can be abrasive on the inner liner. I thought what they were using on Binky was something else altogether.

On this side of the border DOT approved braided stainless lines have a coating on them to seal the braid

The coating is available in clear, red, green and charcoal.

The open stainless weave is not DOT approved and is sold for "off road use only"

BadObsessionMspt
BadObsessionMspt New Reader
3/21/17 6:58 a.m.

Specifically, the brake lines are Earl's Speedflex 600 black coated, stainless steel braided, teflon hose. As every race and rally car we've ever built has this type of hose fitted, we're not even the slightest bit worried about pedal feel. :-) Thanks for watching guys.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
3/21/17 7:50 a.m.

In reply to BadObsessionMspt:

Thanks for joining our board! Is this Richard?

BadObsessionMspt
BadObsessionMspt New Reader
3/21/17 8:08 a.m.
jstein77 wrote: In reply to BadObsessionMspt: Thanks for joining our board! Is this Richard?

I'm afraid it is.

NGTD
NGTD UberDork
3/21/17 8:11 a.m.
NOHOME wrote: Reason I ask is that the traditional SS lines are not legal in Ontario according to my mechanic friend. Not sure I would run them on a street car as the braid picks up a lot of road grime over time and this can be abrasive on the inner liner. I thought what they were using on Binky was something else altogether.

I had a set on an 02 Bugeye that the PO put on when the car was 1 year old. I sold the car in 2014. 11 years in Northern Ontario winters and never had a single issue.

paranoid_android74
paranoid_android74 UltraDork
3/21/17 8:25 a.m.
BadObsessionMspt wrote: Specifically, the brake lines are Earl's Speedflex 600 black coated, stainless steel braided, teflon hose. As every race and rally car we've ever built has this type of hose fitted, we're not even the slightest bit worried about pedal feel. :-) Thanks for watching guys.

This is really cool!

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
3/21/17 10:35 a.m.

I might have to give it a try on the next Exocet build, then.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
3/21/17 3:01 p.m.
BadObsessionMspt wrote: Specifically, the brake lines are Earl's Speedflex 600 black coated, stainless steel braided, teflon hose. As every race and rally car we've ever built has this type of hose fitted, we're not even the slightest bit worried about pedal feel. :-) Thanks for watching guys.

From the Horses Mouth no less! Talk about "Ask and you shall receive" .

Thanks Richard. It would justify the time spent watching and waiting for the videos if I could adopt one idea from the Binky project for my own.

Kendall_Jones
Kendall_Jones HalfDork
3/21/17 4:23 p.m.

I've never had luck with lots of teflon hose in brake systems - In a past life I've pulled it off of 3 cars (FP midget, FP miata, and AS type Mustang). All had teflon lined SS hose front to back and lots of brake bias & pedal feel issues. These were all strictly road race pointy end developed cars with balance bars, rear bias adjustments, pressure sensors F & R.

We could pump the brake and see the lines swell (and this was parker teflon AN3 5K stuff) - we also found the issue with wilwood billet calipers (they would flex almost 1/4"), but thats another story (PS the forged ones were better).

Anyhoo - its just another data point. It looks like lots of folks have gone the full braided route with no issues. Maybe the newer hoses these days dont have that "feature"

Kendall

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