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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » BMW 3 Series Questions. Need Answers.

Sept. 29, 2011 8:21 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

This is not another "what car" question. Well, okay, yes it is.
I've been driving an '88 CRX as a DD for about the past year, and am coming to the conclusion that I'm too old to be doing that. In addition, my kids want it.
So, I need to find a car that is comfortable, gets reasonable fuel mileage, has a certain amount of convenience features and is preferably rear wheel or all wheel drive. I also need to be able to autocross this car and do the occasional track event. I need a do everything car.
Although I've never been a BMW type guy, I've come to the conclusion that a 3 series makes the most sense. You can feel free to correct me if necessary. I prefer the E46, but am open to suggestions. It appears, based on my research, that there aren't dramatic differences in freeway gas mileage between the different engine sizes, but again, correct me if necessary. So here's some questions I need answered:

Steptronic? Tiptronic? What? I've seen both terms used for autotragics, but don't know why.

I'd prefer a manual trans coupe, but is the manual mode in the auto any good? Automatics are easier to find around here.

When considering say 1997-2006 models years ( I know those aren't the generation breaks. It just seems like older than 97's are hard to find in good shape and newer than '06 are getting out of my price range), are there major differences that I need to know about, other than some are E36 and some E46?

What about the differences in the two generations?

Any common problems?

Anything else?
Sept. 29, 2011 8:39 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

The E46 is a little bit heavier than the E36 but it feels solid as a tank. The interior is of infinite better quality than my E36 M3's. It is quieter and more comfortable. A better daily driver with the same sporty feel.

The auto w/ manual mode in my wife's wagon is brilliant but I'd still try very hard to find a manual.

The 330i > 325i. It is worth the extra $ for the motor if you can afford it.

Stuff that goes wrong, E46:

Northern cars have rear springs that rust and break. Easy to fix with H&R because by the time it happens you need shocks. For the record... my wifes does not have this issue but I know two people who have.

The power steering hoses will leak on the low pressure side. They all do. You can give $70 to BMW for the same part or go to the local hot rod shop and get a solution made up for $45.

Your electric mirrors will stop working someday... it is the ribbon where goes thru the door. Cut + solder.

Your radio reception will quit. It is either the antenna booster which you can replace with one from radio shack at great savings to you... or it is the little connector on the back of the radio fell off and a zip tie will suffice.

Your secondary air pump will fail. It is because the $20 valve on the manifold is blocked. If you fix the pump and not the valve... you will kill another pump.

One of your window motors will at some point go nuts and require a new regulator.

AWD cars have E36 M3ty rubber boots on the front axle and they crack... cheaper/easier to replace the $100 axle than take the CV apart. Literally a 20 minute job.

All the usual cooling system stuff... same deal as any late model BMW. Check it before you replace it as the internet has fostered a cottage part sales industry based on paranoia. The stuff is a maintenance item... but not until it needs it.
Sept. 29, 2011 8:42 a.m. DavidinDurango Reader

I am a month into a new-to-me E36M3 with 150,000 miles. I was careful to find one w/ the major weak points addressed. Pay attention to this.

Impression: it seems to do everything. Comfortable, handles well, stops well and performs! (its quite different than the V8 fords I own and have been driving for 10 years)

Last trip: 2800miles - no tank under 28mpg, most 29+mpg and one over 30mpg.

E46 are more technology intensive than the E 36. The E 36 being the quantum jump in BMW evolution (opinion from an independent tech with 15 BMWs in his collection) Lots of aftermarket support. Do your homework. (suspensions, cooling systems need attention after some miles.)

That's the quick and dirty report.
Sept. 29, 2011 8:44 a.m. dyintorace SuperDork

I loved my e46 wagon w/ sport and premium packages. A very fun car to DD, comfortable, decent gas mileage, super reliable, very few issues (did the cooling system, 2 window regulators, etc). I like my e39 car now, but miss the e46 car quite a bit.

Another option would be an e36 M3. While older, still a brilliant car. Look for one in nice condition and it shouldn't need much.
Sept. 29, 2011 9:08 a.m. pigeon Dork

Everything GPS said is right on. I DD'd a '99 328i for nearly 3 years - 100k to 168k miles - and it was a great car. Only sold it because I had the chance to jump into my dream 750Li. Now I have an E46 M3 that's being used for track time almost exclusively. Totally different animal. Some sort of budget range would help here, but generally the early E46 328is (coupe) is to me the best bang for the buck. For what many try to ask for a decent 330i ZHP an E46 M3 isn't much more of a stretch.

The only major thing GPS didn't mention was the rear subframe mount tearing issue, but there was a class action suit several years ago that resulted in many of the cars being inspected and repaired. If really worried about it Turner sells a reinforcement kit to weld in (some guys epoxy it in).
Sept. 29, 2011 9:08 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

Thanks for all the information - Good to know.
It reminds me of a couple more questions.

What kind of miles are too much?

Please describe what is included in the Sport and Premium packages, and how important is it to have them?
Sept. 29, 2011 9:16 a.m. Josh Dork

bravenrace wrote:

What kind of miles are too much?

I think BMWs are the prime example of a car you buy on condition/maintenance rather than mileage. I've seen plenty of nice 180k mile cars and just as many beat 90k mile ones. The important bits will last however long long you keep up with the replaceable parts.
Sept. 29, 2011 11:12 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

How about a description of Steptronic, Tiptronic, sport package, premium package?
Sept. 29, 2011 11:26 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Steptronic == BMW 5 & 6 speed slushdrive SMG = BMW Paddle shift manumatic Tiptronic == Porsche trademark
Sept. 29, 2011 11:33 a.m. oldtin Dork

steptronic is the auto (tiptronic is porsche). sport packages step up some suspension bits and wheels/tires. ZHP added a different tune to the DME for more power, plus 6 spd, staggered wheels, m-sport badging, thicker roll bars and a few other bits and pieces.

Premium packages tend to be more of the heated seat, navi kinda things.
Sept. 29, 2011 11:37 a.m. dyintorace SuperDork

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_%28E46%29#Premium_package_.28ZPP.29
Sept. 29, 2011 12:01 p.m. nderwater SuperDork

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Steptronic == BMW 5 & 6 speed slushdrive SMG = BMW Paddle shift manumatic Tiptronic == Porsche trademark

SMG - single-clutch automated manual gearbox
DCG - much improved dual-clutch gearbox
Sept. 29, 2011 12:04 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

nderwater wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Steptronic == BMW 5 & 6 speed slushdrive SMG = BMW Paddle shift manumatic Tiptronic == Porsche trademark

SMG - single-clutch automated manual gearbox
DCG - much improved dual-clutch gearbox

I didn't think DCG was available for the year range he mentioned. He is all < 2006.
Sept. 29, 2011 1:40 p.m. bravenrace SuperDork

I've never actually driven one with an automatic. Can you give me an idea of how they operate in manual mode, and what year was the DCG introduced?
Sept. 29, 2011 2:23 p.m. nderwater SuperDork

I was elaborating

The automatic's manual mode is of little use for anything other than holding a specific gear - I've used it maybe a dozen times in the six years we've owned our E39. It's a completely different experience than an automated-manual gearbox.
Sept. 29, 2011 2:38 p.m. oldtin Dork

SMG is up to about 2008 - DCG around 2009. Different animals than steptronic or automatic. I'm probably outdated, but what I see in the local pick n pull are quite a few bmws (3-7 series) with good engines and dead automatics so I'm kinda biased. OTOH, I think an smg m3 vert would suit Mrs. Oldtin pretty well since she's been resisting having to live with a 3rd pedal in her own cars.
Sept. 29, 2011 6:38 p.m. bravenrace SuperDork

Sounds like I need to stick with manuals. My job just got harder.
Sept. 29, 2011 7:05 p.m. Woody SuperDork

I think that if I were shopping for a BMW, I'd join BMWCCA and find a member with a car for sale. I suspect that even with high mileage, you'd find cars that were far better than average.
Sept. 29, 2011 7:14 p.m. TucoRamirez Reader

I've had my 2000 328i sedan manual w/ sport pkg. for almost a year. I'm glad I dodged the many walking wounded cars I saw during my search. I regret being too late for a sweet manual wagon, but I didn't know enough about what to look for at that time so it's for the best.

I focused on finding a sport package, but the seats now feel too hard and narrow after an hour or so. I'm also disappointed with the durability and feel of the leather and have read that the pleather is actually more comfy. The coupe interior felt really cramped.

The common problem areas (cooling sys., suspension bushings, underhood rubber and plastics) are items that needed attention in all the modern used cars I've owned, including the miata. A history of neglected preventative maintenance seems to add up to big money quickly on these cars, however.

The engine is buttery rotary smooth. The shift linkage, not so much but mine needs some attention. The brakes and handling are precise and adequate. Overall the car gives a lot of precision and comfort at the expense of low speed hoonfoolery.

GRM of Feb. 2000 has a nice intro to the e46.
Sept. 29, 2011 8:27 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

Woody wrote:

I think that if I were shopping for a BMW, I'd join BMWCCA and find a member with a car for sale. I suspect that even with high mileage, you'd find cars that were far better than average.

Good thought. To start you could find someone to snag a copy of Roundel from and check the classifieds in the back. Usually nice cars to be found there.
Sept. 29, 2011 8:47 p.m. TenaciousD New Reader

I've had my '04 M3 for a bit over two years now. Still love it. It's been trouble-free. I started out just wanting a nice 328 coupe and then thought maybe I'd stretch a little for a 330. And then I drove my M3 and that was the end of it. I bought a little higher mileage example (83k miles at the time I bought it) so the price was only a couple grand more than a 330. It needed all the periodic maintenance but since I got it caught up it's been perfect. Very solid car. If you are not a DIY type and will have to pay a mechanic I wouldn't really recommend it outside of a warranty, but if you can work on your own car it's really not a problem.
Sept. 29, 2011 9:54 p.m. pigeon Dork

In reply to TucoRamirez:

I have a pair of nice grey premium package heated power seats sitting in my basement that need a new home...
Sept. 29, 2011 9:56 p.m. pigeon Dork

dyintorace wrote:

Woody wrote:

I think that if I were shopping for a BMW, I'd join BMWCCA and find a member with a car for sale. I suspect that even with high mileage, you'd find cars that were far better than average.

Good thought. To start you could find someone to snag a copy of Roundel from and check the classifieds in the back. Usually nice cars to be found there.

In my opinion the cars advertised in Roundel tend to be very overpriced. My other piece of advice is to pay a good indy shop for a PPI, especially if you don't know these cars well.
Sept. 29, 2011 10:29 p.m. Duke SuperDork

While I would agree that 330i>325i, when I bought my 2003 325i in 2006, the premium price being asked was just not justifiable. The 325i is a fine DD and although it is not an acceleration monster, it is not slow. It would have cost minimum $5k and more like $7-8k to step up to the 330i. That price difference bought me the Manic Miata as a toy car instead. Now that there is some more age on E46s, the difference is much less dramatic.

You definitely want a manual - the auto sucks a lot of the fun out. And BMW autos do not have a sterling rep for longevity.

And IMHO you definitely want the Sport Package (ZSP) or better. The struts/springs are better, though that's easily fixed on a base car. But the Sport Package seats are worth looking for - easily the best stock seats I've ever owned. They take some time to configure for the proper fit, but once you dial them in, you can drive all day.

2000-2002 E46s also have a reputation as The Ultimate Parallel Parking Machine because the power steering was badly overboosted and numb. Some cars were retrofit with less boost. In 2003 m/y that was changed to a better feeling rack with less assist.

I love mine for what I paid and it has been very little trouble. The valve cover leaks - they all do, around 60k - and I need to fix that. But it's a great DD and I expect to put another 60k on it over the next 5-6 years at least.

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