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turtl631
turtl631 Reader
3/16/16 7:57 p.m.

I'm looking into moving on from my S2000. I like small nimble cars, and need something that can handle winter in the city (Milwaukee) so Z06, Viper are out. I drove a BMW 235 and felt kinda ambivalent about it. I think I want something small, stick, and naturally aspirated.

A friend has a blue Cayman GTS and I'm lusting after it. Looking at used 987.2 cars, I'm struck by the relative rarity and higher cost of Caymans versus Boxsters.

I enjoy dropping the top on the S2000, especially in spring and fall, and I do think it gets me a little extra enjoyment from the car although it's up most days from November-Match.

I would probably track the new car casually, but have a dedicated track car. I feel a little more attraction to the Cayman but I don't know if that's just rarity and "cool because serious hard top sports coupe" appeal. Thoughts?

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/16/16 8:09 p.m.

huh, I have been researching the exact same thing.

Cayman is more expensive for not a drop top of the same car, that on the street you won't be able to tell a performance difference in.

If you are going to drop that kind of coin in either model at least get the S, if not the GTS.

The GTS is holding it's value much more than the S and although a bargain when new, the depreciation of the S vs the GTS makes me think the GTS isn't worth it in the used market.

The real choice comes down to do you want the option of a soft top. Since this isn't a track day car but only an occasional HPDE event I don't thing it would matter either way on the performance side.

Woody
Woody MegaDork
3/16/16 8:34 p.m.

I own a Cayman S, but I don't think that people give the base model enough credit. I've driven a bunch of them and they are very good cars.

DrBoost
DrBoost UltimaDork
3/16/16 8:39 p.m.

The Boxster never really impressed me, in the looks or driving departments. The Caymen (never driven one) is simply one of the best looking cars ever made. But I'm one of those weirdos that thinks most cars that come in coupe and convertible form look better as a coupe (e-type, viper, MG, corvette, etc, just not the MGA).

JimS
JimS New Reader
3/16/16 8:44 p.m.

I just went from s2000 to a base 2013 911. I'm still not sure if I will miss putting top down. I also agree that the base Boxster or Caymen are plenty good. I wanted a Boxster but couldn't resist the looks of a 911.

octavious
octavious HalfDork
3/16/16 10:54 p.m.

Cayman.

And my Porsche has a partial soft top...

turtl631
turtl631 Reader
3/16/16 10:59 p.m.

I'm looking at 987.2, 2009-12 cars, not the current 981 gen that has the GTS option. Agree, you pay a premium for the hard top of the Cayman. But I don't love how the Boxster looks and I may be ready to try a coupe again. If I change my mind should be an easy sale and Boxsters are pretty plentiful.

Definitely going S, want a little more scoot than the S2000. I think base 911 is about as quick or quicker than Cayman/Boxster S of similar vintage. I considered 997 C2S, which would cost about the same and be faster, but I don't need the back seat and would like something a little less cushy. What I really wanted was a GT3, and now 996s cost what 997.1s did a few years back and so on and so forth.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 3:05 a.m.

From what I can tell on the 987.2 cars, the Cayman S is a ~$5k or 3 year premium over the Boxster S. The upside is that the Cayman is a rarer car. (2012 Boxster with same option and mileage as a 2009 Cayman or $5k cheaper for a same option same mileage 2009 Cayman S vs Boxster S)

in the end get what your heart desires. If you want a Cayman, get the Cayman and be happy.

If you want a bargain, the Boxster is a better buy.

Either way you won't lose.

Just a side note, a Boxster S PDK 2012 Porsche CPO with warranty for the cost of a 2016 Mustang GT base Track Pack with no options.

That is a pretty good deal.

turtl631
turtl631 Reader
3/17/16 6:52 a.m.

Yea, I'm curious if anybody out there regrets not getting the vert version? Usually when there is a coupe and vert, the vert sucks (350z, m3, etc) but here is a pretty focused design.

What's the good deal, Boxster or Mustang? Both?!?

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 7:28 a.m.

In reply to turtl631:

The Boxster is a great deal. A P car with warranty (longer than the Fords in mileage and year new vs Porsche CPO)

Yeah the issue here is the Boxster, the vert, is the base for the coupe. The Cayman is just a permanent Zeintop. All the sucky vert's you listed are just coupes with the top chopped off. Doesn't bode well.

As far as regrets, will you miss the vert you had on the S2000? Does the Cayman look better enough to offset the ability of open top goodness? Will you want to turn this into a full tilt track car in the future? Do you think there will be a spec class you want to compete in? Is this down the road going to be your auto cross car and if so is there a class you want to gun for? Do you want to do a project kit car? Maybe a add a little powarrrrr?

The neat proposition between the Boxster and the Cayman is there isn't a wrong answer when comparing the cars. There are versions that better answers than the other in certain situations. But either is a strong answer to any question you pose.

Not a bad place to be. I am a cheap-ass. I would go Boxster from a money standpoint. I can always add a hardtop later if I grow old of it.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 7:46 a.m.

Oh yeah, you can add sport plus control without the clock on the dash. So all the go-go control without the premium in purchase price.

About $1200.

JimS
JimS New Reader
3/17/16 8:45 a.m.

Many times with the top down on my s2k I found the sun beating down made it too hot to enjoy. Evenings were different of course. Since I've only had the 911 for a couple of months I'm hoping by opening windows in the 911 I will enjoy the smells, sounds,and breezes without the sun beating down. It's a tough decision in my opinion.

Cactus
Cactus New Reader
3/17/16 9:34 a.m.

I was briefly considering a Cayman before I ended up with a BMW Z4 M Coupe. What really swayed my decision was the fact that a valve adjustment is a 2 beer job on the BMW, and while I don't think you need to adjust the valves on a Cayman, you can't really ever see the engine, unless you get at it from below. I don't have a lift, and I really appreciate a car I can actually work on. Also, the lack of a limited slip differential sucks, and cracking open a transaxle to put one in sounds pretty involved. Not impossible, but it'll take money and effort.

Anyway, my Z4 sits for most of the year. I think it has more track miles from last year than it does road miles. Sitting like that isn't healthy for IMS bearings, so I think I probably made the right choice.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 9:35 a.m.

IIUC the IMS is a non-issue on the 987.2 cars.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Dork
3/17/16 9:40 a.m.

I'm going to be "that guy" and ask why your choices work for winter in the city but Z06s and Vipers don't. You can put snow tires on anything. Ground clearance?

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 9:54 a.m.

In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:

torque in slick is not your friend, torque in slick and rwd is really not your friend.

Brian
Brian MegaDork
3/17/16 10:03 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯: torque in slick is not your friend, torque in slick and rwd is really not your friend.

Wider tires don't help.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Dork
3/17/16 10:06 a.m.

I get what you guys are saying, but A- you're going to put your snows on different wheels. Why not get narrow ones? and B-what better way to learn throttle control

Just saying, if I had the means, I would love to be the guy who drives his Viper on 6" wide steelies and studded snows all winter.

Huckleberry
Huckleberry MegaDork
3/17/16 10:06 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯: torque in slick is not your friend, torque in slick and rwd is really not your friend.

No kidding. I drive a 6.6L diesel pickup with 650 ft lbs around in the winter. It's fun to wheel out while pulling a trailer in the rain... but it's even more fun to try to drive it empty with the 4x4 off in the snow. Actually, no. No it's not.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 10:43 a.m.

In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:

I want to see a viper on steelies in about 6" of snow LOL priceless

As far as throttle control, what better way to get on a first name basis with the body shop...

Porsche's are known for being competent snowy weather cars with the right wheels and tires.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 10:45 a.m.

On second thought the idea that you will be driving this in snow in an area of the country that gets snow for 4 months a year might push me toward a Cayman over a Boxster.

kanaric
kanaric Dork
3/17/16 11:04 a.m.

my friend has one, had ims failure and then a $10k+ rebuild.

These would be strictly in my AVOID list. I'll take a car where the engine is cheap to obtain or rebuild like a Lotus, a Japanese car, or something American. Or at least a car that is known for having a reliable drivetrain. These are none of those.

I would only buy a car like this if I could afford to buy one new. I would buy the used one anyways but at least then I knew I had the money to maintain it in case of the eventual catastrophic failure.

Harvey
Harvey Dork
3/17/16 11:43 a.m.
kanaric wrote: my friend has one, had ims failure and then a $10k+ rebuild. These would be strictly in my AVOID list.
Flight Service wrote: IIUC the IMS is a non-issue on the 987.2 cars.
LuxInterior
LuxInterior HalfDork
3/17/16 11:53 a.m.

The Cayman is just achingly gorgeous. I want to have one so I can sit in the garage, drink nice whiskey and almost impurely admire it.

For me, it'd be worth the premium.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
3/17/16 12:01 p.m.

Just verified the 09 and newer does NOT have a IMS to have a IMS bearing for even a chance at a IMS bearing failure.

I repeat IMS in M96/97 engines, 09+ 9A1 engine does not have an intermediate shaft.

That is all.

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