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jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
1/29/09 6:51 p.m.

Looking for some advice and real world experience with various tube flaring tools. I want to buy a good tool that can do bubble flares and SAE double flares and perhaps another that can do the 37' AN flare. I have to totally replumb my future race car since all of the lines were as old as the car. 20 years old!

mel_horn
mel_horn HalfDork
1/29/09 6:57 p.m.

Generally double flaring tools are distinct from bubble flaring tools. KD (and NAPA) have both...

walterj
walterj HalfDork
1/29/09 11:22 p.m.

Along these lines... I am doing 37 deg flares for AN -3 couples on my race car but when inquiring about tools I heard that the $100 tools wont do steel - and that you need an Imperial Eastman aircraft tool that is about $250.

Does anyone know the real story on this? I cannot imagine that any hardened steel cone wouldn't be able to flare annealed steel but $100 is a lot to pay for something you cant use.

How do you guys get 37 deg flares for AN fittings with steel hard line?

foxtrapper
foxtrapper SuperDork
1/30/09 6:22 a.m.

Cheap flairing tools suck. I've bought/had/borrowed/used so many cheap sets it's embarassing. And without fail they all did a miserable job of making the flair, especially on those steel brake lines.

Practice. While a simple single flair with copper tubing is easy, everything else is remarkably difficult to do well. Emphasis on that "do well" part.

Different types of flairs, and different angles all require different sets. This can get expensive quite quickly.

Sticks of pre-formed brake line with the fittings on the ends and the ends nicely formed are darn hard to beat. They're cheap too.

patgizz
patgizz Dork
1/30/09 7:33 a.m.
foxtrapper wrote: Cheap flairing tools suck. I've bought/had/borrowed/used so many cheap sets it's embarassing. And without fail they all did a miserable job of making the flair, especially on those steel brake lines. Practice. While a simple single flair with copper tubing is easy, everything else is remarkably difficult to do well. Emphasis on that "do well" part. Different types of flairs, and different angles all require different sets. This can get expensive quite quickly. Sticks of pre-formed brake line with the fittings on the ends and the ends nicely formed are darn hard to beat. They're cheap too.

this is so true it's sad. they sell you the miracle tool that lets you buy coils of brake line and bags of fittings to make it yourself meanwhile the tool can't flare any material harder than play-doh.

jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
1/30/09 9:38 a.m.

It's not to say that I have no expierence doing SAE type double flares in brake lines, I have. With carful prep such as cutting the tube square, deburing the end, chamfering it, and then leaving just the right amount of tube sticking out of the tool I can get a "good" double flare about 60% of the time. When I cut the tubing I always leave a little extra so that I can cut off that occasional bad flare and start over and not end up with a lenght of brake tubing that's now to short.

I have seen a number of those $100 range flaring tools. I was just wondering if they are better then the sub $50 tools, one of which I have now and have only the 60% success rate as mentioned.

I do plan on using as much pre-flared brake tubing as I can on this project but as you know there is always the section of line to fill in that none of the pre-flared tubing will fit correctly.

I also need to install all new fuel lines and that's high pressure as well, it needs to handle up to 100 psi on the feed side.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
1/30/09 9:59 a.m.

I have a Blue-Point flaring tool and I've used the cheap nasty ones. There's a definite difference both in the quality of the end result and the number of flares you can make before the jaws snap in half. I will never use the cheap nasty flaring tools again, and be happy with it.

I think you can get just the flaring part of this tool, there's no reason to go for an expensive cutter.

dean1484
dean1484 HalfDork
1/30/09 4:54 p.m.

+1 on the Bluepoint. I have had my kit for 20+ years. I broke the small die once and ti was replaced for free. I also had a issue with the alignment of the piece that holds the tube in the beginning but that was corrected immediately by the snap-on guy that I got it from,

44Dwarf
44Dwarf Reader
1/30/09 6:52 p.m.

In a perfect world i'd have this unit.... http://store.fedhillusa.com/flaringtools.aspx To bad i don't but i have seen it in use and wow it works so nice.

44

jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
1/30/09 8:38 p.m.
44Dwarf wrote: In a perfect world i'd have this unit.... http://store.fedhillusa.com/flaringtools.aspx To bad i don't but i have seen it in use and wow it works so nice. 44

I came across this brand in my search. They do look like they will get the job done but I just find it hard to justify the cost for the few flares I do.

44Dwarf
44Dwarf Reader
1/31/09 8:32 a.m.

They are nice. The problem with most flare tools is the bar clamp is to thin and when you try to do steel the tubing pushes out the other side there just not enough friction to hold it. The 007 has long clamps.

To do steel AN flares it's been sugjested in the past to slide the nut and farel on to the tubbing then heat the end untill dull red and let cool do this twice and then flare then re-heat and quench in oil.
To much of a pain in the ass for me and if its brake line you need to clean out the oil and crusty's before hooking it up.

44

daytonaer
daytonaer New Reader
1/31/09 6:24 p.m.

I keep using steel lines because they always seem to work fine for me, but I have been reading about replacing the steel line with copper-nickle alloys and would like to try it.

video

jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
2/11/09 8:45 p.m.

Bringing this back to life.

I have finished my search for a "good" flaring tool.

http://www.mastercool.com/pages/flaring_tools.html

The price is high but I scored a good buy when I visited the Eastwood site and found they were selling out a kit by Mastecool that did SAE flares, bubble flares in SAE size tubing, and will form the lip for a push-to-connect fittings used on fuel lines, etc. I paid $235 plus shipping and I checked the site today and the site says, "not currently available" so I might have bought the last one!

I found the same kit at other sites selling for about $100 more!

I used the tool today on some 3/8 tubing just to see how well it worked I was able to forme a SAE double flare in less then 1 minute that looked factory!

I plan on puchasing one or two of the metric size die & adaptors at a later date.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
2/11/09 9:14 p.m.

Oh, sure. ANYONE can do it with a $300 tool. Just try it with a 20 year old HF mini pipe cutter and a HF blake flare set. Then you'll know if you're "good."

Keith
Keith SuperDork
2/11/09 10:27 p.m.

Until the HF flare set brakes in half. BTDT. There's no shame in using good tools in something as fundamental as your brakes.

dculberson
dculberson Reader
2/11/09 10:47 p.m.

Awesome tool, Jim. Sometimes it's just worth it to push through the pain and buy the right tool. Then every time you use it, you smile. I never remember the one time pain of how much I spent but instead remember the recurring pain of futzing with bad tools.

Offer to do flares for people in your area at $10 a pop.. just don't loan them the tool whatever you do!

minimac
minimac Dork
2/12/09 6:59 a.m.
dculberson wrote: ....... just don't loan them the tool whatever you do!

I used to have a sticker on my toolbox. "I'd rather lend you my wife than my tools-at least she can find her way back herself".
I may have been fooling, but when it comes to my tools, I'm serious about not lending them.

jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
2/12/09 7:12 a.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: Oh, sure. ANYONE can do it with a $300 tool. Just try it with a 20 year old HF mini pipe cutter and a HF blake flare set. Then you'll know if you're "good."

Been there, done that! Ha Ha!

I have an Old Fordge double flare brake tool set and that's the one that I had at best 50% success rate with. That's only when I "cranked" on the tube nut to get it to seal. When you do that the "seat" gets deformed by the over tightening. It won't seal again when you go to re-connect the line.

swinsa
swinsa New Reader
3/14/09 7:25 p.m.
walterj wrote: Along these lines... I am doing 37 deg flares for AN -3 couples on my race car but when inquiring about tools I heard that the $100 tools wont do steel - and that you need an Imperial Eastman aircraft tool that is about $250. Does anyone know the real story on this? I cannot imagine that any hardened steel cone wouldn't be able to flare annealed steel but $100 is a lot to pay for something you cant use. How do you guys get 37 deg flares for AN fittings with steel hard line?

My husband is doing some break line and he's using stainless steel and has a prob. with the pre-made line being usable.

My question is the tool your talking about does it do a double flare and stainless steel and if so what is the part number or name of the product?

He also has a problem that we finally found one that did what we want but now he has a line that is about 2 inches long and curved one way then the other and the tool has a piece that you put your line in that looks about 2 inches long but he's not sure how he will get the nut on then do the flaring.

Any suggestions would be helpful.

benzbaron
benzbaron Reader
3/14/09 7:30 p.m.

Any of you folks ever try swage locks? My old man does burst tests on piping and says they are good to 10000psi. Just curious.

jhaas
jhaas New Reader
3/14/09 8:06 p.m.

nothing pisses me off more than doing brake lines with a E36 M3 flare tool. MASTERCOOL or death...

NOHOME
NOHOME New Reader
3/14/09 8:11 p.m.

Just bought a kit made by "Champion". The local snap-off truck sells this item because the snap-off unit is soexpensive nobody ever buys one!

On the surface, it looks like the cheap flare tools: a clamp bar and a die.

In use, it is night an day difference. The $100 buck tool grips the brake line and there is no need to torque the bar super tight. I never want to go back to the cheap tool.

porksboy
porksboy HalfDork
3/15/09 11:03 a.m.

I go to the lokal hydraulic shop and they will make lines for me. They use the Mastercool or equivelent. The last line I had made was about a foot long, had flares on both ends and cost me $2.00 bucks including new threaded fittings. I can buy a hell of a lot of lines for the price of the flaring tool. Now the question I have is do you guys use a bender? If so what one, If not how do you make a nice smooth bend?

jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
3/16/09 12:07 p.m.
swinsa wrote:
walterj wrote: Along these lines... I am doing 37 deg flares for AN -3 couples on my race car but when inquiring about tools I heard that the $100 tools wont do steel - and that you need an Imperial Eastman aircraft tool that is about $250. Does anyone know the real story on this? I cannot imagine that any hardened steel cone wouldn't be able to flare annealed steel but $100 is a lot to pay for something you cant use. How do you guys get 37 deg flares for AN fittings with steel hard line?

My husband is doing some break line and he's using stainless steel and has a prob. with the pre-made line being usable.

My question is the tool your talking about does it do a double flare and stainless steel and if so what is the part number or name of the product?

He also has a problem that we finally found one that did what we want but now he has a line that is about 2 inches long and curved one way then the other and the tool has a piece that you put your line in that looks about 2 inches long but he's not sure how he will get the nut on then do the flaring.

Any suggestions would be helpful.

jimbbski
jimbbski New Reader
3/16/09 12:09 p.m.
swinsa wrote:
walterj wrote: Along these lines... I am doing 37 deg flares for AN -3 couples on my race car but when inquiring about tools I heard that the $100 tools wont do steel - and that you need an Imperial Eastman aircraft tool that is about $250. Does anyone know the real story on this? I cannot imagine that any hardened steel cone wouldn't be able to flare annealed steel but $100 is a lot to pay for something you cant use. How do you guys get 37 deg flares for AN fittings with steel hard line?

My husband is doing some break line and he's using stainless steel and has a prob. with the pre-made line being usable.

My question is the tool your talking about does it do a double flare and stainless steel and if so what is the part number or name of the product?

He also has a problem that we finally found one that did what we want but now he has a line that is about 2 inches long and curved one way then the other and the tool has a piece that you put your line in that looks about 2 inches long but he's not sure how he will get the nut on then do the flaring.

Any suggestions would be helpful.

The answer is 'MasterCool"

See link in above post.

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