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Ashura
Ashura
11/12/09 8:41 a.m.

Many of them are under 40k and starting to creep in to the mid 35k range. While its not in the range of most grassroot's budget you do get alot of car for the money.

While the car has many pro's and con's. The biggest question for everyone is, how are you suppose to maintain this beast as a grassroot's owner? Many of us are home mechanics and know quite a bit about cars. But this thing is computer controlled everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if you need a special computer tool just to do an oil change.

I guess its like when we went from carb to ECU controlled FI. Progress is great but its getting harder and harder to maintain your own cars it seems.

slefain
slefain Dork
11/12/09 8:52 a.m.
Ashura wrote: Many of them are under 40k and starting to creep in to the mid 35k range. While its not in the range of most grassroot's budget you do get alot of car for the money. While the car has many pro's and con's. The biggest question for everyone is, how are you suppose to maintain this beast as a grassroot's owner? Many of us are home mechanics and know quite a bit about cars. But this thing is computer controlled everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if you need a special computer tool just to do an oil change. I guess its like when we went from carb to ECU controlled FI. Progress is great but its getting harder and harder to maintain your own cars it seems.

I'd prefer to have 20 Miatas.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku Reader
11/12/09 8:53 a.m.
Ashura wrote: I guess its like when we went from carb to ECU controlled FI. Progress is great but its getting harder and harder to maintain your own cars it seems.

+100

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson Reader
11/12/09 9:13 a.m.
slefain wrote:
Ashura wrote: Many of them are under 40k and starting to creep in to the mid 35k range. While its not in the range of most grassroot's budget you do get alot of car for the money. While the car has many pro's and con's. The biggest question for everyone is, how are you suppose to maintain this beast as a grassroot's owner? Many of us are home mechanics and know quite a bit about cars. But this thing is computer controlled everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if you need a special computer tool just to do an oil change. I guess its like when we went from carb to ECU controlled FI. Progress is great but its getting harder and harder to maintain your own cars it seems.

I'd prefer to have 20 Miatas.

I'd rather wait six months until the $35k buy in is $33k then have one M5 and one Miata. Then way you have a car for when the answer isn't Miata!

Raze
Raze Reader
11/12/09 9:17 a.m.

or a downpayment on a house with a BIG BOB COSTAS garage!

Carson
Carson Dork
11/12/09 9:32 a.m.

^ inappropriate use of the word filter.

I hope.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn SuperDork
11/12/09 9:34 a.m.

I think the e39 M5 is a lot closer to grassroots territory (relatively speaking.)

Greg Voth
Greg Voth Reader
11/12/09 9:39 a.m.

Having driven both I absolutely prefer the e39. The e60 is faster but feels huge. It was like driving my buddies 400ish hp 300C fast as all get out but disconnected in a way.

Those creepy robot seats turned me off as well.

njansenv
njansenv Reader
11/12/09 9:41 a.m.

As the E39's continue to plummet towards 10k, I start to consider one as my wife's daily driver.

Is that wrong?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim Reader
11/12/09 9:43 a.m.

Doesn't Keith have an E39 M5 as his wife's daily driver or am I misremembering that?

pinchvalve
pinchvalve SuperDork
11/12/09 9:44 a.m.

I think the same thing about the VW Phaeton. Amazing car that really tanked in the US, you can get one with 30 - 40,000 miles for $35K. If it were a premium brand, the same car would be at least double that. BUT, forget working on it and I assume parts are shipped in exchange for your first child.

dyintorace
dyintorace Dork
11/12/09 10:03 a.m.

Buying one of those used scares me only slightly less than buying a used Nissan GT-R would.

My buddy had an e60 M5 with the SMG transmission, since turned in on lease. Given his driving habits, I'm quite confident that transmission will fail early.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 Reader
11/12/09 10:13 a.m.

I wonder about that too. Some of these cars have gotten so full of electronic trickery that the dealer can barely maintain them let alone someone grassroots.

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
11/12/09 11:36 a.m.

I like both, though i would have to say i would take the E39 over an E60. Something about having a SMG would equal lots of money spent in repairs in the future, and im not that big of a fan of the "Active Steering". So ya, Sub $20k, 400hp, sideways machine for me please...

dyintorace
dyintorace Dork
11/12/09 11:56 a.m.

The e39 M5's are getting cheap!

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/ctd/1462609574.html - $13.5k http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/1445947377.html - $13.5k as well

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/12/09 12:21 p.m.

Yup, I've got an 2002 E39 M5. Drove it in to work this morning. The GRM forum said "awesome!". The Miata.net forum said "what a terrible idea!" Yeesh. Mine is definitely bottom of the barrel when it comes to M5s with a bit of a checkered past collision-wise but good mechanicals. I think it needs new shocks, though. It's got that clever combination of float and crash.

I picked up a little doodad to talk to the IBUS system so I can program things like the warnings for burnt out bulbs and interrogate the car. A regular OBD-II scan tool helped me figure out that a dirty MAF was throwing an engine code. It's not hard to live with the computers, it just takes a different skill set. So far, it hasn't been that hard to live with.

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
11/12/09 12:27 p.m.
Keith wrote: Yup, I've got an 2002 E39 M5.

02 was the best year IMO. Has the Suede Headliner, Angel Eyes, Leather Dash, Big Nav Screen

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/12/09 12:57 p.m.

Ahem. It's an Alcantara headliner. I don't know why, but that's one of the high points of the interior for me. It's so pointless and so racy at the same time. But yeah, 2002-03 if you can.

njansenv
njansenv Reader
11/12/09 1:08 p.m.

Everytime I read your posts on these cars Keith, I go to spend more time on Craiglist....

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
11/12/09 1:12 p.m.

What rock have i been hiding under that i didn't realize that E39s were getting so ridiculously cheap?!?!?

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/12/09 1:25 p.m.

Their prices cratered in the last year. If you look at the finished eBay auctions, lots of them aren't reaching reserve and get relisted over and over. Heck, I paid $4500 less for my car than the previous owner paid a year before.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
11/12/09 1:32 p.m.

I just don't understand.

They're good cars, right? They don't SEEM to be ridiculously complicated, no more than most other cars, and i haven't heard of any major reliability issues with them, what with so many of them being daily drivers...

I never would have dreamed that i could have one within the next year... i was thinking about buying a "newer" car this coming summer, and was settling on an IS300 or MR-S. If these are this cheap, then i may as well add this to the list.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/12/09 1:38 p.m.

They have the perception of being very complex cars that will suddenly collapse at 100k. A small electrical problem can be pretty much impossible to correct from the dealer, and because they only brought 10,000 into the US over a 5(?) year period they're kinda rare. Some of them use oil enthusiastically. Bushings are getting to the point where they need replacement. Brake parts are expensive. Any maintenance done by the dealer could cripple you financially. And a car like this needs to be completely perfect in many buyers eyes.

Me, I'm still besotten with the thing. It might bite, but in the meantime I'm just loving it.

Raze
Raze Reader
11/12/09 2:26 p.m.
Carson wrote: ^ inappropriate use of the word filter. I hope.

play on words, we don't have a word filter for just the first half of bob costas, perhaps something will come to mind?

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
11/12/09 2:30 p.m.

Keith: I envy your car list.

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