96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/15/10 11:17 p.m.

I am slowly starting to gather parts to build a turbo D-series. What kinda power can a Civic take before torque steer makes the car impossible to drive? I have heard the stock block can take around 220hp. I was thinking OBD1 conversion and a D16A6 engine. How much horsepower can the stock crank take?

Appleseed
Appleseed SuperDork
9/15/10 11:39 p.m.

If one of the Hongs don't reply to this, its because they hate you.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
9/16/10 6:07 a.m.

In reply to 96DXCivic:

I ran a turbo'd D series in my CRX-si for a number of years back in the early 90's. The short block was stock, although I did install head studs and a better head gasket. I never ran more than 10 psi with a air to water intercooler. It made around 190hp, and I never had a problem with any engine failures. Back then we didn't have all the electronic controls we do now, so I was providing the additional fuel with a higher output pump, larger injectors and a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. No matter what I did, it would run either lean on the high end or rich on the low end. I think with better controls like we have now I wouldn't have had that problem. I wouldn't take a stock block over 200 hp myself.

poopshovel
poopshovel SuperDork
9/16/10 8:16 a.m.
Appleseed wrote: If one of the Hongs don't reply to this, its because they hate you.

We've never dyno'd the superturd, and our boost gauge only goes up to 15 PSI, so I don't know how much help I can be. (shrugs.) I will say I'm amazed how long it's held together with bone-stock internals in the D16Z6. It's good enough for 12.7 at 109mph, and still very "possible" to drive.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
9/16/10 8:18 a.m.

The block is good for a lot of power. The rods OTOH, not so much. With as cheap as quality rods are these days, it's worth it to go that way. At a minimum, do resized LS rods. The stock crank is also good for a lot. Dunno how much, but way more than you will get out of a car running pump gas.

Torque steer isn't too bad. Putting the power down sucks though. You have to do a good bit of suspension work to make the power application not turn directly into smoke. Also, plan on a good LSD.

My new build just turned the rollers to 216/188. It's fun. :)

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
9/16/10 8:23 a.m.

In reply to DILYSI Dave:

Good point about the rods. It's been a while since I have that car and I had forgotten about that. I never had a problem, but controlling the timing is critical with stock rods to prevent hammering them to the point where they bend or break.

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/16/10 8:34 a.m.

Ok what can I do to the suspension to keep the tires from turning into smoke just standard suspension tuning or are there some special tips to fill me in on? Is 250hp unreasonable? 300hp seems a bit much to me. Should I use those Suzuki pistons? Also how much horsepower can the LS rods take? I am assuming more then a car on street gas will make. Also I have seen arguements on MLS vs copper head gaskets. Is there a reason to use one over the other?

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
9/16/10 8:47 a.m.

Lower = less weight transfer. A big rear sway bar helps plant the inside front tire. Adjust spring rates accordingly.

LS Rods - dunno. I would be fine with 200HP on LS rods. 250? Dunno.

Vitara pistons - you'll have to read up elsewhere. I know a bunch of people use them, but I stepped up to SRP Forged, so I'm not real familiar with them.

MLS vs. Copper - I've been happy with OEM MLS gaskets paired with ARP studs. I have some pretty high cylinder pressures, and have never had a headgasket issue.

AutoXR
AutoXR Reader
9/16/10 8:53 a.m.

The stock block D series record right now is held by Speedfactory with 635 WHP..yes 635 , that's with YCP (read ching chong meow) Suzuki pistons.

My D series build has Vitara's and Tuner Toys H beam rods I picked up for $150 (for the set)

There's always guys who push wayyy past what you think. I have seen stock motors hit 260 WHP without issue. How long they last..who knows. It's all in the tune.. You could spend a ton on special pistons, but with people hitting power levels 3 times over what you want - I wouldn't worry about it.

Love me some D.

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/16/10 9:18 a.m.

In reply to AutoXR:

How much horsepower do you have with your D-series build?

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
9/16/10 9:26 a.m.

What car is this going into?

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/16/10 9:37 a.m.

A 96 Civic DX.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
9/16/10 9:56 a.m.

Depending on how the power delivery is, you should have no problems with 250whp before it start to get real hairy.

It'll torque steer at 250whp, but it won't be bad. Again, though. Depends on the turbo.

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/16/10 9:59 a.m.

Ok so next question what turbo? I have never really studied up on turbos. The manifold is flanged for a T3.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
9/16/10 10:13 a.m.
96DXCivic wrote: Ok so next question what turbo? I have never really studied up on turbos. The manifold is flanged for a T3.

You want lots of low end power (more torque steer), or do you want a high end screamer? Or something in between?

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/16/10 10:15 a.m.

Something in between. I don't want a ton of turbo lag or a ton of torque steer, a compromise would be nice.

AutoXR
AutoXR Reader
9/16/10 10:19 a.m.

My limiter is a 16G talon Turbo and 440cc injectors. They won't go much past 300Whp. I want something reliable and in the 12's so I am shooting for high 200's. My car gets thrown on a buddies dyno the day before the challenge.

My last incarnation of the same motor had a T04E on 18psi... it wasn't autocross friendly , but entertaining.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
9/16/10 10:31 a.m.

I'm trying to remember if i've been in a D-slammer with a 50trim.

I know i've done B16s with 60trim T3/T4 hybrids, and they were about where i like my powerband.

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/16/10 1:26 p.m.

Is there anything in particular as far as turbo size which will give an indication of how the power will be delivered?

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
9/16/10 2:56 p.m.
96DXCivic wrote: Is there anything in particular as far as turbo size which will give an indication of how the power will be delivered?

Bigger = more lag, but more ultimate power. I'm running a wee little T25 on mine. Hits early and hard. I could be making more on the top end with a bigger turbo, but power at 3000 RPM is a hell of a lot more useful than power at 7000.

AutoXR
AutoXR Reader
9/16/10 3:05 p.m.

In reply to DILYSI Dave:

Boo.. I just saw your ad on SCCA forums... That car is awesome!

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
9/16/10 3:13 p.m.
AutoXR wrote: In reply to DILYSI Dave: Boo.. I just saw your ad on SCCA forums... That car is awesome!

Thanks!

If it sells, that's cool. I've had fun and will use the money for something else cool. If it doesn't, that's fine too and I'll just keep building.

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