I've noticed brake slip in all my cars, but only after cruising for a while in heavy rain without hitting the brakes. It takes a second before the water is pushed/burned off, and the brakes start working..
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Oct. 16, 2011 3:51 p.m. Wonkothesane Reader
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Oct. 16, 2011 4:25 p.m. aggravator New Reader
DrBoost wrote: I've NEVER felt brakes slip due to wet rotors, NEVER. And, again. IF there is an issue, ABS will clear it up after the first application.
then you haven't driven in heavy rain for an hour or more without touching the brakes.
if you had, on first application of the brakes you would experience very little braking action and tugging at the wheel as one brake clears before the other. the abs doesnt engage as the wheels are not slowing too fast (what the abs looks for). if your cruising along and all the sudden need to stop, the clearing of the water could easily double the braking distance, and having one brake grab before the other could cause an inexperienced driver to loose control.
Dont say it cant happen just because of your limited driving experience. It has happened to me in multiple vehicles. does it happen all the time no. should we need some new technology to keep us "safe" absolutely NOT.
The conditions are real but rare. Instead of relying on technology based safety features, Shouldnt safety be teaching and testing our drivers to improve their skill?
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Oct. 16, 2011 5:02 p.m. Taiden Dork
It might just be my driving habits. I tend to feather on the brake if I anticipate a stop. I can't recall any emergency stops in rain after driving on the highway for a long time, so perhaps I've just never been in the right conditions to notice the effects of water on brake rotors.
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Oct. 16, 2011 6:47 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork
Weird, I would think that the centripetal force from the rotors turning at speed would keep them adequately dry for good braking.
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Oct. 16, 2011 7:21 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork
DrBoost wrote:
AngryCorvair wrote:
In reply to DrBoost:
dude, you're all riled up over nothing on this one. go back and re-read my post. the auto-dry applications are done by the stability control module. also, wet rotors are less effective, not more effective, so the issue being addressed by auto-dry is the issue of less effective braking, ie longer stopping distance.
They'll come up with another module just for that. Then they'll charge you for it. I still say this is snake oil. I've NEVER felt brakes slip due to wet rotors, NEVER. And, again. IF there is an issue, ABS will clear it up after the first application.
srsly? it's done by the stability control module, which is already on the car.
you're arguing brake controls with the wrong guy.
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Oct. 16, 2011 7:55 p.m. Osterkraut SuperDork
AngryCorvair wrote:
DrBoost wrote:
AngryCorvair wrote:
In reply to DrBoost:
dude, you're all riled up over nothing on this one. go back and re-read my post. the auto-dry applications are done by the stability control module. also, wet rotors are less effective, not more effective, so the issue being addressed by auto-dry is the issue of less effective braking, ie longer stopping distance.
They'll come up with another module just for that. Then they'll charge you for it. I still say this is snake oil. I've NEVER felt brakes slip due to wet rotors, NEVER. And, again. IF there is an issue, ABS will clear it up after the first application.
srsly? it's done by the stability control module, which is already on the car.
you're arguing brake controls with the wrong guy.
I am loling a bit over people getting all up in arms over what amounts to a few lines of code.
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Oct. 16, 2011 10:02 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork
aggravator wrote:
I've driven long distances in the rain, I've raced in the rain, I've driven old school (1940's, does that count?) and new stuff (2013 pre-production the other day, does that count?) and everything in between. I live in a part of the country that can get all 5 seasons (yes in MI there are 5 somehow) in the same week. I can still say I've never felt anything like a few here describe. And no, the ABS isn't looking for your rate of decel. It's looking for wheel speed at all 4 wheels and compares them to each other and the vehicle speed. If there was indeed this water sticking to smooth vertical surfaces phenomenon, you would experience a wheel locking up before anything else. Unless of course your brake application was fairly light or gradual. In those cases there wouldn't be a problem.DrBoost wrote: I've NEVER felt brakes slip due to wet rotors, NEVER. And, again. IF there is an issue, ABS will clear it up after the first application.
then you haven't driven in heavy rain for an hour or more without touching the brakes.
if you had, on first application of the brakes you would experience very little braking action and tugging at the wheel as one brake clears before the other. the abs doesnt engage as the wheels are not slowing too fast (what the abs looks for). if your cruising along and all the sudden need to stop, the clearing of the water could easily double the braking distance, and having one brake grab before the other could cause an inexperienced driver to loose control.
Dont say it cant happen just because of your limited driving experience. It has happened to me in multiple vehicles. does it happen all the time no. should we need some new technology to keep us "safe" absolutely NOT.
The conditions are real but rare. Instead of relying on technology based safety features, Shouldnt safety be teaching and testing our drivers to improve their skill?
Even in my mountain biking days the only time I experienced anything like this was just after crossing water. And it might have lasted .5 seconds, maybe 1/2 a wheel rotation. -
Oct. 16, 2011 10:04 p.m. N Sperlo Dork
Taiden wrote:
2) Ferrari based their suspension design off the new Cadillac
.............?
Hasn't a well known racing circuit been using this suspension for a while?
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Oct. 16, 2011 10:05 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork
AngryCorvair wrote:
DrBoost wrote:
AngryCorvair wrote:
In reply to DrBoost:
dude, you're all riled up over nothing on this one. go back and re-read my post. the auto-dry applications are done by the stability control module. also, wet rotors are less effective, not more effective, so the issue being addressed by auto-dry is the issue of less effective braking, ie longer stopping distance.
They'll come up with another module just for that. Then they'll charge you for it. I still say this is snake oil. I've NEVER felt brakes slip due to wet rotors, NEVER. And, again. IF there is an issue, ABS will clear it up after the first application.
srsly? it's done by the stability control module, which is already on the car.
you're arguing brake controls with the wrong guy.
Yes, there is a module on the car capable of this. Maybe they'll leave it like this but I've worked with too many engineers that don't know a car from a banana peel. Given the change, they'll over engineer this already pointless tech into it's own stand-alone module. From there they'll keep developing it to the point where it no longer does the needless task it was designed to do.
You're arguing automotive engineers with the wrong guy. I made my living for many, many years correcting their mistakes. -
Oct. 16, 2011 11:00 p.m. SyntheticBlinkerFluid Dork
I like the new one with the CTS-V Coupe:
"Why did we build a 556 horsepower luxury car with a manual transmission?
Because there are those who still believe in the power of a firm handshake."
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Oct. 17, 2011 1:01 a.m. Trans_Maro Dork
Saying Ferrari uses GM suspension technology is like saying Japan is stealing Russian miniturisation technology.
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Oct. 17, 2011 6:57 a.m. DrBoost SuperDork
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
I like the new one with the CTS-V Coupe:
"Why did we build a 556 horsepower luxury car with a manual transmission?
Because there are those who still believe in the power of a firm handshake."
I've not seen that one. I like it!
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Oct. 17, 2011 7:32 a.m. Raze SuperDork
Magnetorheological dampers were options on FWD N* powered Eldorados, Sevilles, and Devilles of the late 90s to early 2000s before any other car that I am aware of, including the Corvettes and Ferraris. I know because my 1998 Eldorado had them as an upgrade option. They were 'early' versions which only had limited adjust-ability to road conditions, however they did have a neat feature to stiffen up on hard accel to prevent nose lift, and on hard braking to prevent nose dive. When they died at 110k miles I went aftermarket as a new set from Delphi was $750/per front corner for the shock by itself. Each damper had an electric plug harness connection that would vary voltage across the damper, and feedback resistance information so when they no longer had the correct resistance on command, the computer would warn you, disable stability control, lock out 1st gear, and electronically speed limit the car to 110MPH
The aftermarket systems required a resistor to prevent the computer from taking all the aforementioned 'safety' measures.
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Oct. 17, 2011 8:26 a.m. Taiden Dork
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Oct. 17, 2011 8:41 a.m. alfadriver SuperDork
never mind
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Oct. 17, 2011 8:45 a.m. alfadriver SuperDork
pointless argument.
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Oct. 17, 2011 9:25 a.m. Cotton Dork
I've had plenty of braking problems in heavy rain....modern cars, old VWs, you name it.
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Oct. 17, 2011 9:29 a.m. SyntheticBlinkerFluid Dork
You guys are complaining about Disc Brakes? Try a full set of drums in the rain. On an old truck. It a life changing experience.
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Oct. 17, 2011 9:40 a.m. Cotton Dork
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
You guys are complaining about Disc Brakes? Try a full set of drums in the rain. On an old truck. It a life changing experience.
I feel your pain. the Beetle in my avatar has 4 wheel drums. It really gets interesting in the rain if I don't keep the moisture scrubbed off.
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Oct. 17, 2011 9:43 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
I like the new one with the CTS-V Coupe:
"Why did we build a 556 horsepower luxury car with a manual transmission?
Because there are those who still believe in the power of a firm handshake."
I LOVE that the manual transmission is a marketing feature. LOVE IT!
