3 days ago in Articles
The physics behind load transfer are crucial to performance driving.
My friend is looking to me for advice and I dont know Chevy all that well.
He has an 82 camaro (3rd gen) with supercharged motor that when we get around to putting heads and cam on/in will make 450-500hp.
we lack fabrication tools at this time (no welder) so i dont know how much we can really do.
The stock 10bolt that the car came with (motor was our doing, was a junk car we put a much better motor/trans in) is making enough noise that the whine is audible over open headers. so its not long for this world anyways. (and they also reportedly crap out at 350ish hp anyways from what he says)
naturally he called up mossler. He instantly got sticker-shocked to death by the $3,000 or so they want for a drop-in rear. be it a 12bolt a dana44 or a ford 9" they all run about that much from mossler or any of those outfits.
Can a 10bolt be built to survive behind that much power? oh yeah, he wants to run drag slicks at that power level too. (making this harder still)
I am getting frustrated and dont think a $1500 and down solution exists. (at least without fabrication on our part), but I wanted to see if anyone in our knowledge base knew a budget solution.
What did the nelson nova run for a rear?
he has seen something about running a 4th gen camaro rear (but would have to run 4th gen wheels)
as i said, chevy is not my forte, so I am out on a limb knowledge wise.
I think that you may be short selling the horsepower if your combination works. Add another 50hp.
A 10 bolt is weak. I'm not sure what would fit for you. Try posting the question on Racing Junk or Speed Talk.
With slicks I would make sure you have a drive shaft loop in place. Your gonna need it with a stock drive shaft and u-joint.
As far as the motor goes it just has the Weiand 144 supercharger on a 76 camaro LT1 350. at current it is still running stock heads and cam (smog parts) (get the chassis and stuff sorted and get it driving stage) with a nice oilpan and electric water pump with some shorty headers and cutouts.
heads and cam come AFTER this mess is sorted out.
I cant remember how much boost the thing is pullied for, but its a smaller supercharger. we cant go much beyond 475 at any rate because I doubt the stock short block can take it (he may later get a 4bolt main block for it and get some nice internals)
From what i have been told that blower runs out of steam for much over 500hp
It will have a better driveshaft and loop when we get to that power level though.
I wouldn't trust the 10-bolt behind that, especially if you're talking about drag launches.
If you can find a shop that's good with a smoke-wrench and welder, you should be able to take any rearend you want, lop the mounts off the existing rear axle and put them on the new. You'll probably have to have a driveshaft fabbed up, and you'll want to make sure that you get the pinion angle right.
Ford 8.8" rears are behind every light-duty V8 they made since the mid-80s, and will hold up much better than the 10-bolt.
Let's step back a moment shall we..
The 3rd gen ten bolt is weak
The ones that came before it are 8.5" (2n'd gen cars and most other heavy GM stuff) will take a pounding and then some.
They stood up to 400+ factory cubes putting out 400 lb-ft of torque and more. They're capable of being built as strong as a 12 bolt.
2n'd gen f-body cars don't have a rep for weak diffs and that's what's in all but the big block and super-duty versions.
Check this article out: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0603_budget_10_bolt/index.html
Here's a sample right from the magazine: "The 8.5-inch 10-bolt axle hadn't reached production during the era of the first-gen Camaro but soon after became a staple for GM cars. This stronger 10-bolt was intended as a "corporate" axle to be used across GM lines, and it had to be fairly strong as the 12-bolt was going away. Chances are you've abused one of these axles before and probably didn't even realize it, since it was used in pretty much every '71-'81 F-car, as well as '73-'77 A-body cars, '71-'76 B-bodies, heavy-duty '77-'96 B-bodies, '84-'87 Turbo Buicks, and countless scores of 1/2-ton GM trucks among others.."
A blanket "ten bolts are weak" statement is as bad as "all miata owners are fags".
The early 8.5" 10-bolt can still be found cheap and can handle the power as explained above.
8.8" Ford's can also be built up pretty nice for cheap, check out 94+ Mustang's for 5-lug disc-brake shod ones.
The problem with throwing another rear in a 3rd gen CAmaro is that you need to attatch the torque arm to the center section. Welding on the control arm and torque arm brackets are part of why the price is so high.
You need to be careful... the 10 bolt used in the Camaro is tiny compared to the 10-bolt used in '60s cars (that people threw out to put in a 12-bolt). If I remember right it's only a 7 5/8" ring gear. Weaksauce.
People have made them live with setting the pinion depth too close to the diff centerline, so that when everything goes all akilter under load it goes into proper mesh. I have done this on other diffs to keep them alive but running synthetic is essential. And, in the end, it's still gonna break at some point.
Scour the camaro forums and buy used? Try the CMC and SCCA boards. You may get lucky and find a dana 44 or 9" in the classifieds. Check frrax, TGO and asedan.
Traction is the killer in your situation, there are quite a few 10-bolts still under high power 4th gen cars.
So, if the 10-bolt in a 4th gen Camaro is so terrible, should I be using something else in my LS1 MGB build? The engine is an almost-stock LS1 and it's not intended to be a drag car. It'll probably see a couple of track days and a few autocrosses, but mostly it's just for a big noise and because it's kind of fun that the car will simply exist. I have a housing and axles from an S10 Blazer and I was going to stuff the Camaro LSD in it. Should I be worried?
Nope. 4th Gen 10-bolts don't grenade until you hop up the power and launch them on slicks, repeatedly. In a light car with a stock LS1 it will be more than enough.
Apexcarver wrote: .What did the nelson nova run for a rear? .
Ford 9" with 31 spline axles. If you are near eastern PA, there is a racer flea market at Maple Grove on March 19(?). You can find bolt ins many times at this event.
BTW, IMO, the 8.5" 10 bolt is stronger than the 12 bolt. The ring gear has (10) 7/16" bolts vs the (12) 3/8", the pinion shaft is 1.6"d vs 1.3" d, and the case hardening is .006" deeper on the 8.5". The 8.5" 10 bolt can be converted to 30 spline using truck parts and then use aftermarket axles (if you want to stay GM). But as far as I am concerned, the 9" is so much cheaper and stronger, I only use them. At the last FM, I picked up a 9" with 31 spline axles for $20.
6 days ago in News
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