Can someone explain Subaru WRX's AWD?

I am also on NASIOC, but I'm obviously not part of the hella-flush, MaD tYtE, let's toss some 205/35/17's on a 10'' wide wheel Brotato crowd, because I'm on here too. (the Off Topic section is where all the real car guys are. )

I thought the same thing about the 09's before I bought mine. Apparently, the new cars use the electronic stability program and the traction control to regulate wheel slippage instead of a mechanical LSD. On a track, they proved it to be better than the old rear-only LSD setup. I haven't done any HPDE's with my new car, but I can tell you that it handles better stock around some of the local "fun" roads than my old 2002 WRX did with Tokico D-specs, STI Pink springs, swaybars, and a rear strut brace.

BTW, none of this applies to the STI, which is a completely different animal with it's DCCD and front and rear LSD's.

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I feel more knowledgeable and now have a better grasp on this idea.

former520 wrote: I think you are over stating the importance of an LSD in a AWD car. With AWD you really don't need it.

That was my main grip. I assumed LSD was a necessity.

Armitage wrote: My GVR4 was originally equipped with a LSD center diff and open front and rear diffs. I think the question you were originally asking is "how is having 1 front and 1 rear wheel receiving power better than having 2 in front?". To that I offer this... Even before I upgraded to a rear LSD, I was able to consistently pull off 1.7 sec 60" times at the drag strip on unbranded all season tires. That's 0-60 in just over 4.5 seconds on generic 15" rubber. Even though it doesn't seem like it'd work on paper having only 1 driven wheel in the front and the back, it still does.

That answers my questions perfectly. Thanks. I was wondering how much of a loss would I suffer from no LSD in AWD to FWD LSD.

SilverFleet wrote: I thought the same thing about the 09's before I bought mine. Apparently, the new cars use the electronic stability program and the traction control to regulate wheel slippage instead of a mechanical LSD. On a track, they proved it to be better than the old rear-only LSD setup. I haven't done any HPDE's with my new car, but I can tell you that it handles better stock around some of the local "fun" roads than my old 2002 WRX did with Tokico D-specs, STI Pink springs, swaybars, and a rear strut brace.

This is really good to know. Yeah, next I'll need someone to explain the STI's setup.

SilverFleet wrote: I am also on NASIOC, but I'm obviously not part of the hella-flush, MaD tYtE, let's toss some 205/35/17's on a 10'' wide wheel Brotato crowd, because I'm on here too. (the Off Topic section is where all the real car guys are. ) I thought the same thing about the 09's before I bought mine. Apparently, the new cars use the electronic stability program and the traction control to regulate wheel slippage instead of a mechanical LSD. On a track, they proved it to be better than the old rear-only LSD setup. I haven't done any HPDE's with my new car, but I can tell you that it handles better stock around some of the local "fun" roads than my old 2002 WRX did with Tokico D-specs, STI Pink springs, swaybars, and a rear strut brace. BTW, none of this applies to the STI, which is a completely different animal with it's DCCD and front and rear LSD's.

Got your reservation for the RCE/Bilsteins?

In reply to irish44j:

I've promised myself no big mods on this car. It got WAY out of hand on my old wagon, and I need to focus on my 1979 Trans Am. That thing needs a lot of attention and money! All I've done to mine is add 17x8 Rota Torques, a STI rear sway bar, and a Kartboy short shifter. Shifter bushings are getting installed over the weekend.

Once things start to get worn out on it, you bet I'll start modding it!

I'm currently on STi stocker springs (and my stock struts)....I can't handle the terrible valving anymore, espscially for autocross.....

(btw, I said the same thing about "no big mods on this car" after my last car with $15k in mods, lol. At least I can stop once I have the suspension/brakes set up, since this car already has enough power for my needs :) )

I feel your pain on the trans-am....look at the pic in my avatar. Money pit!

highly recommend Perrin subframe lockdown system bushings though....$35 and you can really feel the difference!

Every time Subaru releases a new generation of impreza I hate the design of the body, but then slowly they each grow on me. I just gained an appreciation for the new sedan! These cars are so low key, I NEVER notice them on the road but they are everywhere... I especially like the SCC project wrx:

To the OP, have you considered getting a used STI? You said that you did not want to spend $35 on a new one, you can easily get in a used one anywhere from $15,000 up depending which year you buy!

CLNSC3 wrote: Every time Subaru releases a new generation of impreza I hate the design of the body, but then slowly they each grow on me. I just gained an appreciation for the new sedan! These cars are so low key, I NEVER notice them on the road but they are everywhere... I especially like the SCC project wrx: To the OP, have you considered getting a used STI? You said that you did not want to spend $35 on a new one, you can easily get in a used one anywhere from $15,000 up depending which year you buy!

I know all the cool kids have a CF hood and all that, but it looks so goofy with a glossy finish and the rest all flat.

Joey

The new WRX will not be growing on me.

And the new Forester might as well not exist in my mind. WTH, Subaru? I know it's making money had over fist, but it'd be like Mazda making a 4 door Miata...err, MX-5.

There is no rear lsd in the 09 as they put the VDC in as standard. They ultimately perform the same task. I have 3 subarus. two have the factory lsd, and the third does not. Only place I've noticed the benefit of the oem lsd is during a rallycross. I've felt nothing during autocross nor track days to make me wish to add one to the car that doesn't have it. That being said, you can add the oem one very easily, and cheaply. As to the difference of a fwd with lsd, versus the subie awd system. I like subies, and I say there are trade offs for and against both. On pavement it's fairly even fight. On dirt or snow, certainly the advantage goes to the awd with or without a lsd.

Osterkraut wrote: The new WRX will not be growing on me. And the new Forester might as well not exist in my mind. WTH, Subaru? I know it's making money had over fist, but it'd be like Mazda making a 4 door Miata...err, MX-5.

Think about how many people here have Miatas - because of how awesome they are to drive, race, and own. Surely not because of their girlish looks.....(putting on my flame suit now...)

Point being, real drivers don't get hung up too much on the looks of the cars, they care about performance first and foremost. And in terms of performance, the new WRX is superior to the old one in virtually every respect...power, acceleration, handling, chassis stiffness, braking, interior, and so on. It just doesn't have the 18-year-old-Ken-Block-wannabe look...

I like the previous WRX looks quite a bit, but the old body style screams "cop pull me over" or "18-year old in civic with bodykit, street race me!"....I prefer low-key, nobody noticing me. It's just easier that way :)

All WRXs have been ugly though, and the new one is no exception. The last truly stylish Impreza was the GC 2.5GT.....

but it's not like this is a new discussion in the subaru community....

What's the consensus on the new Legacy GT, good or no? Isn't it only available with the 6spd manual???

I think it looks horrible, personally. My boss just got the new GT and it is really fugly. Even she said that she thinks its ugly, but she loves it. That said, we went to lunch and the interior is very nice and the car seems to be considerably more sporty-feeling than a Camry or Accord (impressions from the passenger seat), and much roomier and higher-quality materials than the previous generation leggy....

CLNSC3 wrote: Every time Subaru releases a new generation of impreza I hate the design of the body, but then slowly they each grow on me. I just gained an appreciation for the new sedan! These cars are so low key, I NEVER notice them on the road but they are everywhere... I especially like the SCC project wrx: To the OP, have you considered getting a used STI? You said that you did not want to spend $35 on a new one, you can easily get in a used one anywhere from $15,000 up depending which year you buy!

I currently drive a 200 5Dodge SRT-4. I bought it used and got lucky. I know how it is with high performance cars being used, and although I consider myself smart and intelligent enough to know a lemon from a good used car, for my next car I'm thinking if I can afford one brand spankin' new, then I will try for it. However, the thought of getting a used STI still hasn't flown away yet, just trying to avoid it for now.

irish44j wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: The new WRX will not be growing on me. And the new Forester might as well not exist in my mind. WTH, Subaru? I know it's making money had over fist, but it'd be like Mazda making a 4 door Miata...err, MX-5.

Think about how many people here have Miatas - because of how awesome they are to drive, race, and own. Surely not because of their girlish looks.....(putting on my flame suit now...) Point being, real drivers don't get hung up too much on the looks of the cars, they care about performance first and foremost. And in terms of performance, the new WRX is superior to the old one in virtually every respect...power, acceleration, handling, chassis stiffness, braking, interior, and so on. It just doesn't have the 18-year-old-Ken-Block-wannabe look... I like the previous WRX looks quite a bit, but the old body style screams "cop pull me over" or "18-year old in civic with bodykit, street race me!"....I prefer low-key, nobody noticing me. It's just easier that way :) All WRXs have been ugly though, and the new one is no exception. The last truly stylish Impreza was the GC 2.5GT.....

The Miata's styling isn't boring. I feel the new WRX'eseses is. That's worst than ugly (though, the new Legacy's ugly is on a whooole new level). And I dunno what WRX'eseseses you drove, but the GE's brakes were to me vastly inferior to the later GD's 4 piston setup.

But still, if your Camry puts a smile on your face, more power to you.

Osterkraut wrote:

irish44j wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: The new WRX will not be growing on me. And the new Forester might as well not exist in my mind. WTH, Subaru? I know it's making money had over fist, but it'd be like Mazda making a 4 door Miata...err, MX-5.

Think about how many people here have Miatas - because of how awesome they are to drive, race, and own. Surely not because of their girlish looks.....(putting on my flame suit now...) Point being, real drivers don't get hung up too much on the looks of the cars, they care about performance first and foremost. And in terms of performance, the new WRX is superior to the old one in virtually every respect...power, acceleration, handling, chassis stiffness, braking, interior, and so on. It just doesn't have the 18-year-old-Ken-Block-wannabe look... I like the previous WRX looks quite a bit, but the old body style screams "cop pull me over" or "18-year old in civic with bodykit, street race me!"....I prefer low-key, nobody noticing me. It's just easier that way :) All WRXs have been ugly though, and the new one is no exception. The last truly stylish Impreza was the GC 2.5GT.....

The Miata's styling isn't boring. I feel the new WRX'eseses is. That's worst than ugly (though, the new Legacy's ugly is on a whooole new level). And I dunno what WRX'eseseses you drove, but the GE's brakes were to me vastly inferior to the later GD's 4 piston setup. But still, if your Camry puts a smile on your face, more power to you.

1 the new WRX stops 7-10 feet faster than the GD with the 4-pots, from every review I've seen. The GD 4-pots have slightly better modulation feel, but have less braking power (that's a fact). The only people who are doing retrofits are people who want "bling" behind their wheels. Plus the GE rear rotors are larger, to boot.

Brake upgrades are easy anyhow. And one can do far better than the stock brakes on the GD or GE pretty easily. The stock brakes (big 4-pots) on our 4Runner absolutely crush even the STi Brembos in terms of clamping force and feel, honestly.

2 Let's not turn this into a "the new wrx is lame, etc etc" thread. THere are already like 20 of those on NASIOC. I seriously doubt most GRM'ers are all that worried about pretty cars, they are more interested in performance.

Let's just say that the GC 2.5RS looked great, the GD was ugly, and the GE/GH is boring and blah. ok?

3 If you ARE going to talk E36 M3 about the GE's looks, at least get your insults right. It doesn't look anything like a CAMRY. It looks like a Corolla S.

4 trust me, everything that sits in my driveway puts a smile on my face to drive...well, except the pink one.

I will, though, recount a little story from when I first got the car. I was at work out in the lot with our 19-year-old intern, who said "you should have gotten the old STi, it looked so much more badass...this new one is kind of boring." A couple minutes later a co-worker (attactive 30-something female) walks out and sees us and says "Is that your new car? What is is, a Lexus? It looks nice".

Then and there, my reason for liking the looks of this car became apparent: teenagers don't like it, women do. Just the opposite of the old WRXs :D

Oh I bet if you squeezed yourself into that pink one and took a ride down your driveway you would have a smile on your face too.

Man, Toyota owners are defensive!

I do apologize for getting my AtoBmobiles confused, though.

MrJoshua wrote: Oh I bet if you squeezed yourself into that pink one and took a ride down your driveway you would have a smile on your face too.

until I went crashing into the mailbox!

Osterkraut wrote: Man, Toyota owners are defensive! I do apologize for getting my AtoBmobiles confused, though.

Hey, if you can't argue about cars on the GRM forum, where can you?!

I do own a Toyota, but its...er..."AWD"... ability is just slightly superior to the one on any subaru

In reply to irish44j:

Does said AWD have front and rear LSDs, or just center?

In reply to Osterkraut:

hah, you know I was being facetious, right?

the 4R just has the usual lockable torsen center diff and open f/r. No reason for anything more, frankly. I only drive it on family vacations anyhow, it's my wife's DD.

Of course, it does have something no current subie does: 2WD mode . For mad-tyte JDM burnouts yo!

and, of course, a non-functional hood scoop for the non-existant TMIC.

irish44j wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: hah, you know I was being facetious, right? the 4R just has the usual lockable torsen center diff and open f/r. No reason for anything more, frankly. I only drive it on family vacations anyhow, it's my wife's DD. Of course, it does have something no current subie does: 2WD mode . For mad-tyte JDM burnouts yo! and, of course, a non-functional hood scoop for the non-existant TMIC.

Fa-ce-t-ious? Sorry mister, I went to public school, that's a right big word right there!