CarKid's CSP Miata: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

July 26, 2010 9:36 p.m. CarKid1989 Dork

Well i have decided that i will keep the wrecked Miata, build it to CSP specs, GRM Challenge it then use it as an AutoX only car.

So.

This thread will be to annoy everyone on here with my questions regarding CSP rules. Ill make a seperate build thread.

I printed out the rules for CSP and have read them over and over and over.

1) i have read the section about what wheels i can and cant use but i am still confused and cant make heads or tales of it. Any explanation that is simple to understand?

2) Can i strip out the carpet and everything out of the trunk? (use the excuse that its so i can adjust my shocks?)

3) Are my FM rear upper shock mounts legal to use? I cant find it in the rules.

4) You DONT have to use a roll bar UNLESS you run a harness. However you MUST have a harness if you run say a Kirkey type seat. (you can run a kirkey with a stock seat belt can you?)

Thanks for your help.
July 26, 2010 10:06 p.m. oldsaw Dork

CarKid1989 wrote:

Well i have decided that i will keep the wrecked Miata, build it to CSP specs, GRM Challenge it then use it as an AutoX only car.

So.

This thread will be to annoy everyone on here with my questions regarding CSP rules. Ill make a seperate build thread.

I printed out the rules for CSP and have read them over and over and over.

1) i have read the section about what wheels i can and cant use but i am still confused and cant make heads or tales of it. Any explanation that is simple to understand?

2) Can i strip out the carpet and everything out of the trunk? (use the excuse that its so i can adjust my shocks?)

3) Are my FM rear upper shock mounts legal to use? I cant find it in the rules.

4) You DONT have to use a roll bar UNLESS you run a harness. However you MUST have a harness if you run say a Kirkey type seat. (you can run a kirkey with a stock seat belt can you?)

Thanks for your help.

1) Wheels have no restrictions for diameter or width, but I believe there may be some constraints on how they fit within the fenders/wheel openings.

2) No, you must retain all the interior bits and that includes the trunk.

3) Your shock mounts should be legal, as long as you are still using the original mounts.

4) Don't know about harness requirements and an aftermarket seat - sorry.

Here are a couple of recommendations when digesting the SCCA rulebook:

1) Street Prepared rules are an extension of what is allowed in the Stock classes. The SP rule set is a "progression" over Stock allowances.

2) Unless the rules (for any class) specify you CAN make a modification, then you CANNOT make said modification.

Printing just the rules for CSP won't provide all the information you need. Some/most of the info is also in the Stock and overall SP rule sets.
July 26, 2010 10:40 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

One rule, Investigate the fastest CSP Miata in your region and do EVERYTHING he does. When he is still scads faster then buy a stock Miata and learn car control.
July 26, 2010 10:43 p.m. EvanB Dork

You should just do this and have fun...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/553/
July 26, 2010 10:46 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

CarKid1989 wrote:

4) You DONT have to use a roll bar UNLESS you run a harness. However you MUST have a harness if you run say a Kirkey type seat. (you can run a kirkey with a stock seat belt can you?)

http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules/2010_scca_solo_rules.pdf
Rule 3.3.1
If you use non-factory belt then yes the roof has to be closed or run an approved, proper height rollbar. I do not know if a factory Miata hardtop counts as a closed roof? I know the fabric roof does not count.
July 27, 2010 12:33 a.m. modernbeat HalfDork

You can use an aftermarket seat with the stock belts.

You can use a wide racing lap belt without a rollbar.
July 27, 2010 3:53 a.m. mw HalfDork
When you say you are going to build the car to csp specs, what do you mean? Are you trying to build a car that is csp legal or trying to build a car that is competitive in csp? If it's the latter, there is a whole lot of work to be done. I 'competed' in CSP at Nationals last year and the cars that showed up were really fast. I'll try to address your questions based off of what I saw competing there.
1. virtually any wheels are legal. To be fast you want either 13x10's or 15x10's and A6's
2) I'm pretty sure most of the cars there didn't have trunk carpets. (I could be wrong on this, but Ithought the trunk wasn't considered interior)

3) Yes the FM rear mounts would be legal, but they aren't fouund on any of the fast cars. To be competitive you will need to spend at least an entire challenge budget on shocks.

4) You don't need a roll bar. Run a kirkey or lighter seat and the lap portion of a racing harness. I'm not sure where it is in the rules, but that's what everyone had. Also, you should make the passenger seat really light.

Other things found on top csp cars include:

2001 and up vvt engine. Somehow making 160+ hp with stock internals.

lighter brakes - I think Bill S's car saved 9lbs a corner on brakes alone.

Os gilken diff

lighter everything else that is allowed.

In short, you could probably build a v8 miata for the price of most competitive CSP cars.

EvanB wrote:

You should just do this and have fun...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/553/

THis would be a much cheaper way to go fast. It's in no way CSP legal, but could be a lot of fun at the challenge.
July 27, 2010 7:34 a.m. CarKid1989 Dork

mw wrote:

When you say you are going to build the car to csp specs, what do you mean? Are you trying to build a car that is csp legal or trying to build a car that is competitive in csp?

I was thinking of making a CSP spec car. It would be a local level car. nothing stupid fancy or expensive but built to the rules.
July 27, 2010 7:38 a.m. CarKid1989 Dork

mw wrote:

EvanB wrote:

You should just do this and have fun...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/553/

THis would be a much cheaper way to go fast. It's in no way CSP legal, but could be a lot of fun at the challenge.

You know what? i was thinking about something like this but here is where i get caught up:

"Do I build a class specific car and race it locally to try to win/compete with equal competitors

OR

"Do I just build whatever-the-hell-kinda-car I want and just race it locally to race it. no specific class, just for kicks mostly"
July 27, 2010 7:50 a.m. Junkyard_Dog HalfDork

Build something fun. If the only way you can have fun is by winning your class then go nuts, but I feel sorry for you.
July 27, 2010 8:31 a.m. CarKid1989 Dork

CarKid1989 wrote:

"Do I build a class specific car and race it locally to try to win/compete with equal competitors

OR

"Do I just build whatever-the-hell-kinda-car I want and just race it locally to race it. no specific class, just for kicks mostly"

This is essentailly what i have been getting caught up the last couple weeks. This question is like THE biggest thing to figure out here
July 27, 2010 10:35 a.m. Ian F Dork

A father and his two sons runs a reasonably well-prepped CSP Miata in my region. I didn't get a chance to look too closely at the car, but it seems they're running 949racing wheels and A6 tires. They're wide and extend well past the fenders. The car is street legal, but I think they trailer it to events and it's pretty much a dedicated auto-x car (stiff springs, very loud exhaust, racing seats, no top installed). I heard they were getting the engine rebuilt for this year, but I don't know if they did.

In some ways, I like building a car to a rule-set. It can remove some of the mod-decisions, although it can increase overall costs if competitiveness is desired.

While top-end shocks are expensive, SP removes some of the really spendy engine mods from the equation that would dump you into Prepared or SSM. At least at the learning stages. IMHO, unless you are an experienced and top-level driver, building the car to the limit of the rules right off the bat may end up being a waste. I'd start with a decent set of OTS shocks and springs, wheels and tires, and then concentrate on seat-time and add mods as funds and experience allow.

Regardless, the simple fact is a good auto-x car and a fun street car often have differing mod requirements and what helps one will hurt/limit the other.
July 27, 2010 2:17 p.m. Autolex HalfDork

I was building one when I ran into my 325ti on CL...

long story short...(in my limited budget and limited brain capacity)

pick your coilovers (vmaxx/FM/Afco may be a good start...), RB Sways, Torsen, either 13x9 with 255 A6's (better gearing) or 15x9 with 275 A6's (more lateral grip) ,Chip to 8000rpm...Learn to drive!

of course this setup (at best) is locally competitive... :)