pinstripefan90
pinstripefan90 None
11/30/10 8:19 p.m.

I was just wondering, I have a '87 Celica GT 2.2 w/ a 5spd trans that I would like to swap into my '89 Corolla, have any of you done this or herd of it, some issues I see w/ doing the swap is the Celica is fuel injected so it has a PCM and the Corolla is carbureted, obviously I will have to make mounts and things of that nature but thats not a issue in my eyes, feedback would be apprchiated...

  • Jake
Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
12/1/10 9:00 a.m.

You want to put a 5SFE motor into a 89 Rolla? Well, anything is possible. People put 3SGTE motors into MK1 MR2s. It should fit with some cutting and welding, but then a Caddy 500 fits in a BMW with enough cutting and welding, right? Anyway, you'll need the fuel pump from a EFI Rolla, and complete schematics for both cars. Wiring it all up will be challenging.

mndsm
mndsm Dork
12/1/10 9:05 a.m.

89 was the AE92 chassis, wasn't it? I wouldn't think it would be that hard, I know I've seen it in dirtbag AE101 builds.

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
12/1/10 10:56 a.m.
mndsm wrote: 89 was the AE92 chassis, wasn't it? I wouldn't think it would be that hard, I know I've seen it in dirtbag AE101 builds.

89 was only an AE92 if it was a Corolla Sport (i.e. 2-door), and all AE92s were fuel injected (4A-FE in the SR5 or 4A-GE in the GT-S). 4-door Corollas were some other designation, though I honestly wasn't aware that they still ran carb'd motors that late. I thought the last carbureted Corollas were the AE86 SR5s with the 4A-C.

Honestly, I don't know why someone would swap out the 4A-FE for a 5S-FE, unless they had a car without an engine and the 5S just laying there collecting dust. If I were buying parts, a 3S-GE can be found in 4th-gen Celicas and would be a much better motor for what I expect anyone on this board would want to do with the car.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
12/1/10 11:03 a.m.

Well, to make this even more pointless in my opinion....

The 87 Celica GT didn't have the 2.2. Had the 3sfe 2.0 as far as i know, and makes MAYBE 10hp more than the 4afe at best.

OP, i wouldn't bother. The rolla needs a 4age, but if you really want to go S-series motors, the minimum you should consider is the 3sge as was already stated.

EvanB
EvanB Dork
12/1/10 11:29 a.m.
ReverendDexter wrote:
mndsm wrote: 89 was the AE92 chassis, wasn't it? I wouldn't think it would be that hard, I know I've seen it in dirtbag AE101 builds.

89 was only an AE92 if it was a Corolla Sport (i.e. 2-door), and all AE92s were fuel injected (4A-FE in the SR5 or 4A-GE in the GT-S). 4-door Corollas were some other designation, though I honestly wasn't aware that they still ran carb'd motors that late. I thought the last carbureted Corollas were the AE86 SR5s with the 4A-C.

Not all AE92's were fuel injected the early SR5 with 4AFE was carbed.

The four doors were also AE92 if they had the 4AFE engine.

fast_eddie_72
fast_eddie_72 Reader
12/1/10 11:31 a.m.
93celicaGT2 wrote: The 87 Celica GT didn't have the 2.2. Had the 3sfe 2.0 as far as i know, and makes MAYBE 10hp more than the 4afe at best.

I'm almost certain this is correct. I hae a 5SFE MR2. I've needed odds and ends from the junk yard from time to time. GTs never have the 5S in my experience (though they're very similar and some odds and ends interchange).

Pumpkin Escobar
Pumpkin Escobar SuperDork
12/1/10 11:38 a.m.
93celicaGT2 wrote: OP, i wouldn't bother. The rolla needs a 4age,

^this

/thread

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
12/1/10 12:26 p.m.
EvanB wrote: 4AFE was carbed.

Um, no. The "E" in "4A-FE" specifically means fuel injected. If it was carbed, it'd just be a 4A-F, which I thought was never brought stateside.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
12/1/10 12:32 p.m.
fast_eddie_72 wrote:
93celicaGT2 wrote: The 87 Celica GT didn't have the 2.2. Had the 3sfe 2.0 as far as i know, and makes MAYBE 10hp more than the 4afe at best.

I'm almost certain this is correct. I hae a 5SFE MR2. I've needed odds and ends from the junk yard from time to time. GTs never have the 5S in my experience (though they're very similar and some odds and ends interchange).

Yep. 4th gen GTs never had the 5sfe. 5sfe started in 1990 GT/GTS.

EvanB
EvanB Dork
12/1/10 1:18 p.m.
ReverendDexter wrote:
EvanB wrote: 4AFE was carbed.

Um, no. The "E" in "4A-FE" specifically means fuel injected. If it was carbed, it'd just be a 4A-F, which I thought was never brought stateside.

Yea thats right. Anyway, you could get the carbed 4AF in the early AE92s I looked at an 88 SR5 that had a carb.

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
12/1/10 2:18 p.m.

Oh, weird. But good to know, a 4A-F would be a WAY easier swap in place of a 4A-C than a 4A-GE.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
12/1/10 2:53 p.m.

A friend of mine had a AE92 with a 4AF and a 5 speed. It got 40 MPG at 70. I was really hoping my AE92 would get close to 40, but about 30 is the best I can squeeze out of the 20 valve. I don't remember how different the final gearing was on the other car, but my car is geared pretty low (JDM, y0, from a AE101.)

EvanB
EvanB Dork
12/1/10 3:00 p.m.

My 92 with 5-speed and 4afe would get around 43 on the highway @70-75mph

driver109x
driver109x Reader
12/1/10 4:32 p.m.

Threadjack... was the 3sge available here in the US? If so which car?

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy Reader
12/1/10 4:45 p.m.

1988 all 4AF were carbed EXCEPT the All-Trac equipped cars, they were 4AFE

Not so sure about 1989+

Concerning power... while I have no idea what the hp was of the 3sfe, I do know the 2 liter would naturally have substanially more torque over a 1.6. And it is torque that gets you rolling.

My evenutal plan for my AE95 (All-Trac sedan) is to mount a 4AFZE - take 1 part 4AGZE(pistons) add 1 part 20V(block), add 1 part 4AGE 3 rib(crank and rods), add 1 part 1990 Celica short intake manifold (from base Celica with 4AFE), and port the head to maximize flow

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
12/1/10 4:45 p.m.
driver109x wrote: Threadjack... was the 3sge available here in the US? If so which car?

Yep, only in FWD config, though. 4th-gen Celica GT-Ss and maybe GTs had them.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
12/2/10 8:56 a.m.
ReverendDexter wrote:
driver109x wrote: Threadjack... was the 3sge available here in the US? If so which car?

Yep, only in FWD config, though. 4th-gen Celica GT-Ss and maybe GTs had them.

Just the GTS.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
12/2/10 9:03 a.m.

I have the ECU for a USDM 3SGE Celica sitting on the shelf. It was on sale at the breakers. If anyone needs it, it's CHEAP.

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter SuperDork
12/2/10 9:31 a.m.
oldeskewltoy wrote: My evenutal plan for my AE95 (All-Trac sedan) is to mount a 4AFZE - take 1 part 4AGZE(pistons) add 1 part 20V(block), add 1 part 4AGE 3 rib(crank and rods), add 1 part 1990 Celica short intake manifold (from base Celica with 4AFE), and port the head to maximize flow

Argh... that wouldn't end up as an "-FZE"... The 'Z' means supercharged, so unless you bring over the pistons AND the blower, you don't get no stinkin' 'Z'.

Curious though, what head would you use? The F-head? 4v G-head? 5v G-head?

And why use the Z pistons? Sure, they're forged, but aren't they also low-compression?

And I thought I remember you saying that you preferred hypereutectic(sp?) pistons for N/A motors on some ancient thread on hachi-roku.net's forums...

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy Reader
12/2/10 11:21 a.m.
ReverendDexter wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote: My evenutal plan for my AE95 (All-Trac sedan) is to mount a 4AFZE - take 1 part 4AGZE(pistons) add 1 part 20V(block), add 1 part 4AGE 3 rib(crank and rods), add 1 part 1990 Celica short intake manifold (from base Celica with 4AFE), and port the head to maximize flow

Argh... that wouldn't end up as an "-FZE"... The 'Z' means supercharged, so unless you bring over the pistons AND the blower, you don't get no stinkin' 'Z'.

Curious though, what head would you use? The F-head? 4v G-head? 5v G-head?

And why use the Z pistons? Sure, they're forged, but aren't they also low-compression?

And I thought I remember you saying that you preferred hypereutectic(sp?) pistons for N/A motors on some ancient thread on hachi-roku.net's forums...

ahhhhh

To add clearence for the S/C to fit....

. . .

.

.

Now to answer the cylinder and head question... I'll be sticking with an F head because the rpm of the F head is better suited to the S/C (lower rpm). I'm using S/C pistons because I believe(have yet to measure) that the 4AF pistons are similar volume to the late S/C pistons

Above is a comparison of the G head and F head, as well as the pistons under each. My belief is the 4AGZE piston under an F head will net me the same CR, or close enough to "adjust" by thinner/thicker gasket, OR a mild shave of head and or block

YsiUJXs6hQyf2KAkjsHay3FhAtUp10Ey