Grassroots Motorsports

Register Log in to GRM
- Community

Birthdays
Recently on the Classic Motorsports forums

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Challenge Concours Judging

Dec. 28, 2009 8:28 a.m. tuna55 Reader

So I am trying to wrap my head around this 20xx challenge thing for absolutely no reason. Everything seems straightforward except concours. I am a Lemons vet, so we aim for something a little different there. Is a rusty old body with tons of patina (see the Forty-Niner) going to have a similar score compared to a newer car with tons of wax to make it shine?

Is a gutted, functional interior going to do the same as a clean original interior?

I get the basic premise, clean up the underbody, engine compartment, wiring, make everything as immaculate as possible, but if I drag a rusty 39 plymouth (no, not really) out of some farmers field, do I have to remove the patina and rustoleum the thing for judging, or do I just make it as pretty as an old rusty car can be?

Any help is appreciated - I've never gone to a challenge and I don't think I can get down to visit until I have something to drive. I get the bribes, though,
Dec. 28, 2009 9:18 a.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

my observations over the years:

jhaas' '49 9C1 scored well with 50-plus years of patina. it was also sitting on a caprice cop car chassis and was bagged to lay frame.

wheels777's "rat" bug won the concours with "new" patina. it was also a radical build.

a stock car with a gutted interior does not score as highly as a "race car" interior.

theme cars score better than non theme cars.

cars that elicit positive emotional response, regardless of how not-shiny, do better than a shiny OE car.
Dec. 28, 2009 10:51 a.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork

Concourse also isn't just about cosmetics. There is also cool-factor that weighs into the concourse score. A dirty, but cool car might beat a clean, but nothing special about it car.
Dec. 28, 2009 10:58 a.m. tuna55 Reader

That's what I had hoped to hear.
Dec. 28, 2009 11:23 a.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

i still can't wrap my head around it, thats the one thing after two years of attending I'm still trying to figure out lol.
Dec. 28, 2009 11:31 a.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork

DirtyBird222 wrote:

i still can't wrap my head around it, thats the one thing after two years of attending I'm still trying to figure out lol.

Me too. I've been 3 times and still have no berkeleying clue what will get a good score. The above is what I picked up along the way, but it is by no means a "right" answer.

My plan for my next build involves some cool E36 M3, done to a high level. Hopefully I get rewarded. :shrug:
Dec. 28, 2009 11:43 a.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

DILYSI Dave wrote:

DirtyBird222 wrote:

i still can't wrap my head around it, thats the one thing after two years of attending I'm still trying to figure out lol.

Me too. I've been 3 times and still have no berkeleying clue what will get a good score. The above is what I picked up along the way, but it is by no means a "right" answer.

My plan for my next build involves some cool E36 M3, done to a high level. Hopefully I get rewarded. :shrug:

i'll reward you with some cheap beer and even cheaper humor.
Dec. 28, 2009 11:48 a.m. tuna55 Reader

A few races back at Lemons South us Tunachuckers won the "best moonshine" award. That's a good bribe, I think. Especially by the case.
Dec. 28, 2009 4:16 p.m. MadScientistMatt Dork

The best way to view it: How much would the GRM readers want to see an article about it? That's the most important factor.
Dec. 28, 2009 4:34 p.m. SVreX PowerDork

^^ What he said.
Dec. 28, 2009 5:23 p.m. Sonic Dork

MadScientistMatt wrote:

The best way to view it: How much would the GRM readers want to see an article about it? That's the most important factor.

In addition to this, how good would pictures of the car look in the magazine?
Dec. 28, 2009 5:52 p.m. SVreX PowerDork

Even if it looks crappy, a great story earns a lot of concourse points.
Dec. 28, 2009 5:55 p.m. eastsidemav Reader

Its kind of like the figure skating portion of the event. You may not know what score you're gonna get, and it may seem arbitrary, but you have a good idea as to who's gonna score better or worse than you.
Dec. 28, 2009 6:38 p.m. MitchellC Dork

The word "concours" does seem a bit misleading. They should just rename it the "how berkeleying awesome" score; that's what it seems to be.
Dec. 29, 2009 2:02 a.m. Nashco SuperDork

SVreX wrote:

Even if it looks crappy, a great story earns a lot of concourse points.

I agree with this. Since I had no competition in CA, I got a couple of pointers and a gold star. I thought I was sitting pretty for the $2009 FL event and did good but not as good as expected. I had NO idea I'd be giving a speech and since I had been up and working for about 30 hours I just babbled. I would have put more thought into my 60 second schpiel had I been better prepared. The concourse is NOT a "car show" (static) nor is it a judging cleanliness. Jessica detailed the hell out of the Fiero, I think we could have done less detailing, thought about our presentation for 30 minutes, and swapped out our tires and done significantly better overall. From my very little experience, I'd venture to say the concourse portion is a moving target.

Bryce
Dec. 29, 2009 8:27 a.m. SVreX PowerDork

That's a pretty fair statement.

The speech was new this year. Big improvement. But the concept was always there: Sell us on the awesomeness of your car. The speech just standardized the format in which people did this, and gave spectators a chance to hear some of what the judges heard.
Dec. 29, 2009 9:41 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

The speech really threw me, I left out a lot of cool build items because I just froze when that damned mic came near me.

However I will be back prepared for 2010, just being there for an event teaches you so much more than all the posts and questions.
Dec. 29, 2009 10:19 a.m. spin_out New Reader

I thnk people are hitting the nail on the head. It kind of judges, "How cool is this for a magazine article?".

I think I've placed 13th, 10th and 8th from the Bottom in that order. See a pattern here?
I've realized I'm no real expert on what the judges want, so even though I'm a paint and body guy, this year I'm looking at performance only. I'm planning to ignore the concourse portion completely.
My 2010 car has 5 years of "stored outside" crud on it, and I'm being very careful not to disturbe that patina. A Tom cat pissed on the seat and sprayed inside the car this weekend. Last place in concourse, here I come!
Dec. 29, 2009 10:45 a.m. tuna55 Reader

This is all good news - more Lemonesque than I expected. I'll continue to not plan anything
Dec. 29, 2009 3:40 p.m. Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator

tuna55 wrote:

A few races back at Lemons South us Tunachuckers won the "best moonshine" award. That's a good bribe, I think. Especially by the case.

If you bring enough, it could also help your "Editor's Choice" and/or "Challenger's Choice" votes as well.

If you bring even more, you could probably recoup your travel budget. I've been hankering for some 'shine to keep in my emergency drawer here in the office.
Dec. 31, 2009 10:27 a.m. dok33 New Reader

tuna55 wrote:

A few races back at Lemons South us Tunachuckers won the "best moonshine" award. That's a good bribe, I think. Especially by the case.

Just gotta be careful how late in the day you hit the concours, I think by the time we got there with our beer dispensing Festiva the judges were already saturated with booze...
Dec. 31, 2009 11:30 a.m. junkbuggie New Reader

dok33 wrote:

... our beer dispensing Festiva...

oh man that sounds freaking awesome.

You'll need to log in to post.