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Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
7/9/18 11:47 a.m.

At what point is a trade considered part of the build and at what point is it considered not?

Here's what I'm getting at. Say I buy a car for $2018, full budget to the dollar. Then I trade that entire car straight up for a different car that is listed (asking price) more than $2018. The original car I bought is only sorta related to the build at all and not related transactions are supposed to be excluded.

Is the car I just traded for budgeted at $2018?

I can see this both ways, but at least as long as the trade is not "inside" it seems fair to me.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
7/9/18 12:09 p.m.

I asked back in 2015 similar question because i had a $900 car that someone offered me a different car for.  I was told as long as i had documentation of the $900 purchase i was fine.

It’s not meant to be a loophole to the paperclip to house trade up formula.  I believe it’s more of a one time deal as otherwise the prior transactions become not related for challenge purposes.  IE: i chopped the top off a $2018 saab and someone loved it, traded me for a high mile wrx, traded for a pickup, traded for a lincoln, traded for a high mile c5 corvette and i sell the clear roof panel and buy a painted one, nitrous, and $1300 in stickered a7’s and show up with that.  That falls under the not in the spirit of the event blanket

i believe the purchase of the (presumably jeep) becomes related at the moment it’s traded for a challenge car, no?  Part of Darth Nader is traded for and that trade bait was initially in no way planned for challenge anything, but it was wanted by someone who had something i could use.  

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
7/9/18 12:35 p.m.

In reply to Patrick :

That's exactly what I was thinking, that it is fair if you "don't be a dick" and use it as a trade for trade for trade for trade for loophole.

Although, I would also be interested to see what people could come up with trading only...

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
7/9/18 1:02 p.m.

A "red paperclip" challenge could be an interesting exhibition class.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
7/9/18 1:10 p.m.

I  thought the paper clip rule was allowed. 

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
7/9/18 1:48 p.m.
Andy Neuman said:

I  thought the paper clip rule was allowed. 

I think it is ok, as long as you aren't a dick.

If you trade a broken wheel bearing for a broken disk brake and then trade that for a broken tailight housing and use it as your shifter, I'm saying that's cool.

If however you are a used car dealer by trade and make 140 trades in order to bring a Nissan gtr that was "$2018", then not cool.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
7/9/18 2:40 p.m.

In reply to Robbie :

I’d say being a dealer it would be against the rules because it isn’t available to the public. 

If you pulled that off you better have really good documentation and story for each trade. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
7/9/18 3:55 p.m.

Challenge Rules Said:

Q: If I negotiate a crazy good trade deal and it is recorded properly, i.e. trading my used challenge car fuel pump for a brand new Nitrous kit, is that against the spirit of the event?

A: Actually, trades like that are a way to build a fast Challenge car and are condoned.

Justjim75
Justjim75 Reader
7/10/18 1:20 a.m.

So if I bought a car for $500, took the motor out and sold what was left for 500, intending to put it in another car I bought for $200, and sold the tires off of  the second car for $200, do I have a motor, and a car with no tires and $2327 left in my budget?  Excluding safety and my first set of tires? And yes, I'm better at the deals than building and driving

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/10/18 5:19 a.m.

In reply to Justjim75 :

How’d you get to $2327?

What you have in that deal is a free car and motor, with $700 consumed in your recoup budget. It’s allowed. 

$2018 left in your budget, $309 left you can recoup. 

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
7/10/18 6:50 a.m.

In reply to SVreX :

2327 is 2018 + 309. I think that's how he got there.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/10/18 9:16 a.m.

Oh, OK. 

But the $309 is not money that can be spent, unless it is recouped from something. 

In the example given, recoup limit for the individual items has been maxed. Can’t just add $309 to the budget without buying something else that has some additional recoup value. 

Justjim75
Justjim75 Reader
7/10/18 10:48 p.m.

Yes, the last $309 is with the understanding I sell that much more off the purchases.  I wanted to make sure I understand the rules correctly.  None of it has actually happened yet, these are just strong possibilities. And Paul, I truly wanted to build the Elco, but when the $200 wagon came along during the year of the wagon.....

Justjim75
Justjim75 Reader
7/10/18 10:52 p.m.

Edit: so I cant get more than $200 in recoup from a car I paid $200 for?

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
7/10/18 10:54 p.m.

I will just say be careful recouping tires (or anything else budget exempt). Rules specifically say you cannot do budget shenanigans like selling brake rotors for recoup and then buying new ones with the budget exemption.

Tires are harder because only 4 are budget exempt, so you may be able to make a recoup argument.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
7/10/18 10:54 p.m.
Justjim75 said:

Edit: so I cant get more than $200 in recoup from a car I paid $200 for?

That is correct. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/11/18 7:22 a.m.

In reply to Justjim75 :

Perhaps an Elco with a cap IS a wagon! cheeky

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
7/11/18 7:33 a.m.

NOT !

Justjim75
Justjim75 Reader
7/11/18 10:39 a.m.

Got it, thanks y'all!

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/12/18 5:48 a.m.
GTXVette said:

NOT !

Don’t be so quick!

First let me say, I agree with you. I don’t really consider an Elco a wagon.

However, I can make a pretty strong case that they are...

An  El Camino is built on the same chassis as it’s wagon counterpart. They even share a floor pan.  Elcos even have the rear foot wells (where your feet are if you are in the back seat of a wagon). They are concealed under the bed of the Elco.

So, if you started cutting a wagon for weight reduction, you’d pretty much end up with an Ekco.

I have no dog in this fight (because I don’t own an Elco), but I don’t see any reason Jim can’t make the request.

An Elco is most definitely more of a wagon than several things we saw last year were trucks. An Elco is also more wagon than it is truck, and no one would have complained if an Elco ran as a truck.

Im just saying...

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk PowerDork
7/12/18 7:05 a.m.

In reply to SVreX :

Ooooo! I could get a cap for a small stepside truck and put it on a Miata and have a wagon !  (see Pontiac Farm Bird)

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/12/18 9:15 a.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk :

I don’t approve this stuff, but...

Justjim75
Justjim75 Reader
7/12/18 10:25 a.m.

The Elco needs too much rust repair for my skills and tools, also, I wouldn't try to pass it as a wagon as with a cap on it, it's way more truck than wagon to me.  Window separating the front and back kills the wagon possibilities for me.  Besides, I have the king of wagons and I've already started building it, the Caprice Classic!

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
7/12/18 10:27 a.m.

That pesky window is just a hammer or medium sized rock away from not being a window.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
7/12/18 12:31 p.m.

So I bought the monster Miata last winter for $2,000 and rebuilt it but it was still terrible so I traded it for the ecotec Miata plus $2,000.

Do I have a free Challenge eligible car now?  $2,000 worth of mods would make it a true screamer!

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