Challenge Supreme Court (Questions Answered Here!)

In reply to Indy-Guy :

Same way Andrew Nelsons yellow bug was legal. Production body on a race chassis. I can't remember what he used for a frame. He may have built it himself, but it wasn't a bug anymore. Just a light weight body on something else. 

In reply to SaulGoode :

The yellow bug's frame was a mass-produced passenger car frame that featured certain mods required to mount engine / trans / front susp / rear susp plus provide body mounting points.  '37 Chevy rings a bell for some reason, but maybe that's just my tinnitus.

Big key here.  If you are planning to do something crazy it's best to get green lit before doing so. I have go ahead for crazy build based on a production body with a not production chassis.  It might not be until 2019-20 but rick said go for it and I'm collecting parts.  

I did have the green light from the magazine before we built it. 

AngryCorvair said:

In reply to SaulGoode :

The yellow bug's frame was a mass-produced passenger car frame that featured certain mods required to mount engine / trans / front susp / rear susp plus provide body mounting points.  '37 Chevy rings a bell for some reason, but maybe that's just my tinnitus.

1937 huh,  so what you are saying is he used a pair of Rails to keep from having to BUILD a Complete chassis, sounds like a smart Idea to me.!  My car is a frame and body that were Mass produced but neither part would support a car by itself. If you want to build a Big Block Corvair Do it, I have a rear Clip(Alston) I will GIVE you. It won't work In this Rendition of My Car

There is a bit of a Gray area here. I am not bashing Andrew's build, it was phenomenal. But if it was built on a 37 chassis, why is it know as the yellow bug? What is the most important part to the challenge, the body or the chassis? If I would have used the middle section of my frame what difference would it have made? It's basically 2.5 feet of 2X4 thin wall rectangular tubing. 

In reply to SaulGoode :

The current rules say:

"You know what this means, but generally speaking we’re going to want to see production frame rails or equivalent unibody structures."

Andrew used production frame rails.  That's probably not a legit comparison for your car. 

Your "loophole" is that the rules say "generally speaking we are going to want to see...". Since none of us knows what "generally speaking" means, you requested approval from the staff, and got it. 

That makes it legal. 

I know that's weird, but those are the rules. 

Thanks for chiming in with some answers.  It seems the key here was PRIOR approval for a deviation from the stated rules...

This clears it up for me, I wonder if "Jerry from LA" is as satisfied as I am?

I've learned that it might be better to ask forgiveness than permission. I asked to do something and was told no because "it's an accident waiting to happen" yet someone else didn't ask, did it, and it performed as I expected with no accidents. 

Stampie said:

I've learned that it might be better to ask forgiveness than permission. I asked to do something and was told no because "it's an accident waiting to happen" yet someone else didn't ask, did it, and it performed as I expected with no accidents. 

It is a fine line there. I'd say it depends on the situation. 

Stampie said:

I've learned that it might be better to ask forgiveness than permission. I asked to do something and was told no because "it's an accident waiting to happen" yet someone else didn't ask, did it, and it performed as I expected with no accidents. 

Im pretty sure I know what you are talking about and the way you wanted to do it and the way it was done was a bit safer, also they(the track) really dont care what you do if you have a really slow car.

this year they didnt even "shake" my battery in tech, they just glanced at my car and passed me.

echoechoecho said:

Stampie said:

I've learned that it might be better to ask forgiveness than permission. I asked to do something and was told no because "it's an accident waiting to happen" yet someone else didn't ask, did it, and it performed as I expected with no accidents. 

Im pretty sure I know what you are talking about and the way you wanted to do it and the way it was done was a bit safer, also they(the track) really dont care what you do if you have a really slow car.

this year they didnt even "shake" my battery in tech, they just glanced at my car and passed me.

If you guys are talking about what I think you are talking about, I do think a bumpstop is different than a solid mounted rear axle. I think some cars even came factory with only "bumpstops" as suspension (old minis, right?).

There is also the ET difference as mentioned, and I think the NHRA gets pretty lax if the car is 15 or slower.

In reply to GTXVette :

While I appreciate the offer, I have no use for said rear clip.  

In reply to echoechoecho :

As I told y'all, I think it's great that you did what you did.  I wanted to see it run and how it performed. I'm just less likely to ask permission on something that I don't see as a rule breaker. 

As far as tech yes it was "better" and obviously we didn't have a repeat of last year but I did see a few things allowed to run that I questioned.  I would have driven them no problem but I think they were pushing loose NHRA rules. 

I post only because this is number 666. 

Tom Suddard said:

Ok, computers in cars. 

How about this: If a computer is in the car during competition, it and its cables/adapters are exempt from the budget provided they are easily removable, leaving every vehicle feature fully functional in their absence.

Does that rule work, everybody?

Revised to clarify wording. Now covers GoPros, tuning adapters, etc. 

Does this ruling apply to an independent wide band that is only used as a data logging and tuning tool, and can be removed without affecting vehicle function?

No, it does not. Again, we need to be able to publish a photo of the car and say "this is a $2018 car."

Regarding the bus, that falls under our generally accepted "Roadkill NASCARLO" litmus test. Crazy chassis with a stock body? Cool. Stock chassis with a crazy body? Cool. Crazy chassis with a crazy body (like a stock car)? No. 

bigben said:

Tom Suddard said:

Ok, computers in cars. 

How about this: If a computer is in the car during competition, it and its cables/adapters are exempt from the budget provided they are easily removable, leaving every vehicle feature fully functional in their absence.

Does that rule work, everybody?

Revised to clarify wording. Now covers GoPros, tuning adapters, etc. 

Does this ruling apply to an independent wide band that is only used as a data logging and tuning tool, and can be removed without affecting vehicle function?

Interested to hear the answer on this one too. 

Tom Suddard said:

No, it does not. Again, we need to be able to publish a photo of the car and say "this is a $2018 car."

Was this regarding the wideband O2 sensor question or back up to the chassis/body stuff? 

I think a wide band 02 should be ok If you can get a Factory Computer/ECM to Operate it. But Not a Laptop  and any thing needed to transmit that Info to a Remote Laptop Should be  In the budget. 

edit  I may have that off a bit ,  I believe the correct wording allows the O2  on track and laptop In the Pits for tuning But not on the Track . Sorry.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

I'm good.

Robbie said:

 

If you guys are talking about what I think you are talking about, I do think a bumpstop is different than a solid mounted rear axle. I think some cars even came factory with only "bumpstops" as suspension (old minis, right?).

Yep, old minis have something like generous 4x4 bump stops for suspension. Also, recent WRX STis have the suspension touching the bump stops at stock ride height.

I didn't even think about the possibility of cameras affecting the budget. I strapped $200 worth of camera equipment to two cars this year and it never crossed my mind.

In reply to AWSX1686 :

That was regarding the 02 sensor. 

Tom Suddard said:

In reply to AWSX1686 :

That was regarding the 02 sensor. 

Understood.

Hopefully a couple quick and easy questions regarding budget/accounting for a returning challenge car.

1.) Appearance Modifications/Improvements:

We painted and applied vinyl decals to our car for 2017. If we decide to paint it a different color and run a different vinyl package for 2018, can we omit the 2017 paint job and vinyls from the 2018 budget?

Additionally, if we included the paint at full cost for 2017, and have and use left-over paint, can we include that in 2018 as "leftover paint from 2017 - $0.00"?

2.) Ebates?

Ebates is an online shopping tool that provides cash back to members. It is free to sign up and available to anyone. If we purchase parts/supplies online and receive cash back through Ebates for those purchases, can this cash back be added back into the budget as a discount on the purchases or through recoup?

Thanks!