Challenge Supreme Court (Questions Answered Here!)

If you receive something in the annual "New Years Game".  Link to thread   Is it free to budget? or does it have to be FMV'ed? (It's kinda like a trade since, you exchange boxes at random)

Dusterbd13 said:

New topic: if i order $75 worth of steel, use some to make a part that sells for 75 and use the rest on the challenge car, does that mean i zero out the steel?

I'd say you charge a portion of the $75 that is equivalent to the amount of steel you used on the challenge car.  The rest of the steel and the part you sold is an unrelated transaction.  

This is how I accounted for the sheet metal used for my side skirts. I bought a sheet of steel for $24 and made a pair of side skirts for my car.  I then used the remainder of the sheet to make two more sets of side skirts which I sold for $100 per set.  So, the side skirts for the challenge car didn't cost me anything, but I still charged a third of the cost of the sheet ($8) to the budget since I had used a third of the sheet on the challenge car and the other sales were unrelated transactions.

Going back to the whole tool rental discussion, the more I think about it and apply business principles the more I think that tool rental costs should be included in the budget.  Now I know this will be unpopular and many will think it is splitting hairs, but hear me out.  

If you own a tool (or buy a tool) the tool can be used on many different projects, or jobs, or cars, etc.  So, using it on the challenge car does not add measurable cost to the challenge car project since it is just one of many times the tool is used, and it is still available for use after being used on the challenge car.  It doesn't matter if it is a torque wrench, a dyno, or an alignment machine. 

On the other hand, if you rent a tool to perform work on a project, whether it be a ball joint tool, an engine hoist, or a backhoe, the cost of that rental adds cost directly to the project.  If the tool is only used on one project then the total cost of the rental must be absorbed by the project, as there is now where else to distribute the charges.  If that project is a challenge car then it seems correct to me to charge the rental fee to the challenge budget since there is a quantifiable value increase to the challenge car and no other justifiable bucket to put the cost in.

To illustrate it another way, if you ask a contractor to quote a job for which he will need to rent additional equipment, the whole cost of that equipment rental will be added into the quote for the job.  However, if he already owns the equipment he will only quote the standard cost of the job.

I'm sure someone will point out that you can use a rented tool on more than one project while you have it.  That's fine.  Divide the rental cost by the number of projects you used it on during the rental period and the prorated cost is the cost that is absorbed by that project.

bigben said:

Dusterbd13 said:

New topic: if i order $75 worth of steel, use some to make a part that sells for 75 and use the rest on the challenge car, does that mean i zero out the steel?

I'd say you charge a portion of the $75 that is equivalent to the amount of steel you used on the challenge car.  The rest of the steel and the part you sold is an unrelated transaction.  

This is how I accounted for the sheet metal used for my side skirts. I bought a sheet of steel for $24 and made a pair of side skirts for my car.  I then used the remainder of the sheet to make two more sets of side skirts which I sold for $100 per set.  So, the side skirts for the challenge car didn't cost me anything, but I still charged a third of the cost of the sheet ($8) to the budget since I had used a third of the sheet on the challenge car and the other sales were unrelated transactions.

That's too complicated a description. The side skirts you sold (and the prices) are irrelevant. You used a third if the sheet, and budgeted it. That is all. 

Duster is asking something different.  He's asking if he can sell his labor and credit the budget with the profits. In your example, that would be adding $200 back to the budget for the sale of the 2 extra side skirts. 

In reply to bigben :

Some of us may agree with you, but ultimately the only thing that matters is what Tom says. If he says tool rentals are free, they are free. 

SVreX said:

In reply to bigben :

Some of us may agree with you, but ultimately the only thing that matters is what Tom says. If he says tool rentals are free, they are free. 

I believe in let’s keep it simple and remember that if it’s on the challenge car when raced, it’s in the budget. If you did not do it yourself, it’s in the budget. Everything else, doesn’t matter.

In reply to Ranger50 :

I agree. 

How would you relate that to rental tools?

SVreX said:

In reply to Ranger50 :

I agree. 

How would you relate that to rental tools?

Slippery slope here as I’ll go to the extreme with my example....

I rent out a complete machine shop to build a motor for a couple of days and do all the work myself. Included or no? I’d say that’s beyond the scope of the intended rules, meaning simple items such as an aforementioned ball joint press or even a new 20 ton press for the garage aren’t or shouldn’t be included, that something like a shop rental should be included into the budget. You want to dingleberry hone the block for some “new” rings, no budget hit, IMO.

 If you needed a Ball joint Tool It is most likely you bought a Ball Joint, That Cost (The BJ) must be Shown. the Tool does not because some places they are Loaner tools and some places Not.

A couple ways to look at Dyno Time,

I am going to have to get some Help with my tuning,  A dyno would be Great an Open Road not so Much, Track time AND Knowing what your doing with a Lap top would be even better ,

I can Likely Find Help with the Lap Top But Gettin In the Track cost money,

So track time isn't going to be counted And In that Vein maybe dyno time may shouldn't be charged because It May Fall Under a Saftey Blanket.

I fully plan on a car that will be Prepared for the Event

Ranger50 said:

SVreX said:

In reply to Ranger50 :

I agree. 

How would you relate that to rental tools?

Slippery slope here as I’ll go to the extreme with my example....

I rent out a complete machine shop to build a motor for a couple of days and do all the work myself. Included or no? I’d say that’s beyond the scope of the intended rules, meaning simple items such as an aforementioned ball joint press or even a new 20 ton press for the garage aren’t or shouldn’t be included, that something like a shop rental should be included into the budget. You want to dingleberry hone the block for some “new” rings, no budget hit, IMO.

Unfortunately, this appears to undermine your previous statement. 

I realize everyone (including me) likes to debate, but I am pretty sure Tom has been clear on this subject, and the noise in this thread is making it unusable. 

I think the tool issue is decided. I suggest emailing Tom if you have exceptions. 

Tool rental is free. 

The steel question—unrelated, since you aren’t selling any of the steel that’s on the car. Budget hit is whatever fraction of the steel purchase price is equal to the fraction of steel bought that’s present on the car. 

Indy-Barely Functional-Guy said:

If you receive something in the annual "New Years Game".  Link to thread   Is it free to budget? or does it have to be FMV'ed? (It's kinda like a trade since, you exchange boxes at random)

 

Tom, How about a part included in the box game?  Budget hit?

Ok. Thanks tom!

Thought i had found a loophole and was being clever.

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

At least you weren't a DA like me. I took a $100 budget hit in 2016 for lexan not on the car. Took me a year to figure out I could prorate it. 

In reply to Stampie :

DA is actually the nickname i had though highschool.  Some guys still call me that....

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

I like your new nickname the waitress gave you. Bare buns. 

Lol

(Fingers in my ears) I can't hear you, I can't hear you...

in reply to Tom Suddard:

hello tom i must say you have a great idea about thread but as per my vision i am find it hard and difficult to work on it so i will take a time to answer this  

complete23 said:

in reply to Tom Suddard:

hello tom i must say you have a great idea about thread but as per my vision i am find it hard and difficult to work on it so i will take a time to answer this  

Canoe?

In reply to Indy-Barely Functional-Guy :

I asked this last year (the rear-view mirror in my Rampage was received in last year's game) and the answer was to FMV it- but of course he could change his mind (next year I'm just planning on pulling it once at the track and running without it- $5 more to spend, WOOHOO!).

In reply to Ashyukun (Robert) :

It's FMV. Deal not available to the public.

Say i buy a 44 dollar ebay coilover kit. Comes with 4 sleeves/adjusters, 4 springs. Thats 8 pieces. I use just the sleeves/adjusters. Can i fmv them at 22?

I will give you 22 dollars for the Springs,

then it will be Good to Go