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wheels777
wheels777 SuperDork
1/17/18 2:40 p.m.
Dusterbd13 said:

In reply to wheels777 :

Fair enough on all counts. And as a newcomer, i dont want to be the reason anyone leaves the challenge or the forum. Im just trying to make sure i understand things and have an honest and legal car.

Tom: got it. Thank you for the clarification. 

Differing scales and differing weights are unjust. Use a standard you would expect a competitor to use and a standard you can feel good about. 

wheels777
wheels777 SuperDork
1/17/18 2:54 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

The minimal amount of added verbiage is worth the effort. The cars are better, faster and safer. No one needs to explain homogeneous lots. It's a set of tires, some specific safety items and a production based car built with a $2018 limit for the car and parts. Done. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
1/17/18 3:29 p.m.

Instead of explaining homogeneous lots, I would say this:

"For a while, the rulebook was pretty simple, and everybody more or less understood what each part would add to the budget and why. Then, a few people decided they would try to break the rulebook. Though that technique made the event stronger overall, and the rules more robust, it also led to a number of clarifications being issued. One such clarification was issued by Tom. Tom, in an effort to categorically explain the difference between a box of 100 zip ties and a box of 100 Miata parts to a crowd that was eager to poke holes in his explanation, used the phrase "homogeneous lot" to describe a lot of items that are identical, and therefore each have a value equal to the total cost of the lot divided by the number of items."

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
1/17/18 3:41 p.m.

I need a drink now. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
1/17/18 3:58 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Where are you headed? I get off in 2 minutes.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
1/17/18 4:05 p.m.

People have been breaking the rule book from the beginning. Then the rule book grew to something like a whopping 2 pages and was considered excessively long and overly complicated. That lead to a super truncated version. Now the rule book is growing and changing and growing and changing again-often dramatically in the course of a couple of responses in this thread. I know nervous potential challengers ask questions constantly seeking rule clarity, but this continuous thread with frequent official interpretations is placing more uncertainty in my mind, not less. Now instead of understanding the intent of the rules and building accordingly, I have to come scour the rules and this thread to see if I am following the Official interpretation of the rules.

Back before I entered my first car I was a super nervous newbie who felt like if I accidently forgot to follow some minute aspect of the rules exactly I was going to get sent home. It was terrifying-and I live in Gainesville. After competing a few times I relaxed because I realized that the contest was about getting people to Bring cool Cars the Mag could write about! not finding some way to keep you out. I ask the staff to please be careful with the constant interactive rule discussions because it gives the appearance that the competition is a super strict rule heavy event with officials constantly scouring your car for rule deviations so they can disqualify you- when the reality is quite the opposite.

GTXVette
GTXVette Dork
1/17/18 4:09 p.m.
wheels777 said:
Stampie said:

Two questions actually:

Why isn't this thread stickied anymore?

Some folks who enjoyed the event in the past are losing interest in the event because many of the questions are anal. 

Then they shouldn't read the Thread,  But that doesn't sound very Nice . Maybe Put this Thread somewhere where we can Access it that isn't a part of the rest of GRM . Like down Below off Topic. I like reading all the Confusion Makes me Feel Normal.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
1/17/18 4:10 p.m.

Oh, I guess I never answered the sticky question.

The rulebook had a few shortcomings. I think we've addressed 99% of them. I don't feel like this thread is valuable anymore, so I unstickied it, and copied its archive into the bottom of the Challenge rules.

 

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
1/17/18 4:18 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

In reply to Stampie :

Where are you headed? I get off in 2 minutes.

Same place you dropped of the M3 subframe. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
1/17/18 4:30 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I’d be there if I didn’t have dinner plans with the missus!

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
1/17/18 4:36 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Bring her. Shots on me and there's couches to sleep on. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
1/17/18 7:10 p.m.

No can do, it's X-files night.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair UltimaDork
1/17/18 7:49 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

In reply to Stampie :

Where are you headed? I get off in 2 minutes.

I hope that's not what she said!

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/20/18 10:49 a.m.

Does it need to still look like a wagon?

So, if a car that was clearly originally started life as a wagon got the Ghettocet treatment and came to the Challenge barely looking like a wagon any more, would it qualify for the Wagon class?

GTXVette
GTXVette Dork
1/20/18 11:32 a.m.

NO, But wait did Mazda make a Miata Pick Up ?  The President has been set already.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/20/18 11:48 a.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

Trump drives a Miata??

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/20/18 11:50 a.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

The precedent that has been set is the reverse of what I am asking. People took vehicles that were not pickups and made them look like pickups, which qualified. 

Im asking if a vehicle that STARTED life as a wagon would qualify if it no longer looked like a wagon. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director
1/20/18 11:50 a.m.

Yes.

GTXVette
GTXVette Dork
1/20/18 5:38 p.m.

You know I spelled that Twice and both times it came back wrong. Duh .

If it ain't gonna look like a Wagon ........

Why Start with a Wagon, That seems like a lotta work for ..... Not a Wagon,  Lol

But Really Scoobie didn't look much Like a Bus,  But it was more Bus than a Miata is a Pick up.

Now that's funny right there !

I agree with Tom Anyway I was just Messing with ya .

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/24/18 9:51 p.m.

What did we decide on this?...

Do shooting brakes count as wagons?

GTXVette
GTXVette Dork
1/25/18 7:21 a.m.

I remember when they First started talking Wagons they said No Ho made wagons ! Seems the reverse should be True. But even though Tom Has the Final Say(he said YES) I think this is a point that Andy/Jeremy Hot Tub Committee  Et Al. should have a say. I guess my question is Why ?  Like Taking a Horse and a Donkey and Making a Mule. (A sedan that is also a wagon on the same Floor pan)

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
1/25/18 8:40 a.m.

My opinion is started life as a wagon and is still a wagon. I don't want to see a hacked up car that looks like a wagon or a wagon that had the wagon removed from it. I want a wagon to win the wagon class, I'd even propose the wagon still seats four.  

 

This thread is where the competitors had their discussion of the class and what should be allowed.  

Edit: The sub classes have always been managed by the competitors as to what is allowed / not allowed. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/25/18 12:32 p.m.

In reply to Andy Neuman :

I understand your opinion, and read that thread. It didn't really answer the question. That's why I am asking the staff officially. 

Do shooting brakes count as wagons?

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
1/25/18 12:37 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

I think shooting brakes should count as wagons for everyone but you. 

Mad_Ratel
Mad_Ratel Dork
1/26/18 7:04 a.m.
 
SVreX said:

In reply to Andy Neuman :

I understand your opinion, and read that thread. It didn't really answer the question. That's why I am asking the staff officially. 

Do shooting brakes count as wagons?

His answer answered you. The competitors are the ones that can answer that as the Wagon Class is NOT a magazine class and not under their perview to rule on.

 

Basically, just like the luxury class and the pickup class. Everything was competitor driven. No involvement other than being at the event by management. 

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