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  Oct. 10, 2011 9:46 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  I'm noodling around some ideas for the next Challenge.
  

  Here are some thoughts:

  1) allowing only real street tires for the autocross portion of the event next year. Drag tires will still be allowed for the drags.

  Treadwear ratings of greater than 140. Other than that, no real exclusions.

  2) Requiring fire extinguishers to be installed and within reach of the driver. Free for the budget, but you still need to buy one. real 5BC extinguishers are about $50.
  

  What do you guys think? This isn't official--just some thoughts I had on the drive home.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 9:48 a.m. 4cylndrfury SuperDork

  I agree with the Fire extinguisher bit, but whats the rationale with the street tires rule...Im not disagreeing, just curious whats the motivation behind the change?

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  Oct. 10, 2011 9:48 a.m. mndsm SuperDork

  I kinda like it, personally. Though in my searches, used hoosiers still seem to be cheaper than say, used rs3's.... and there is a better size selection in the hoosiers. Again, just what i saw.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 9:48 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  I don't really like the street tires rule because in my experience it is much easier to find used race slicks then decent performance tires for a reasonable amount of money.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 9:52 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  Again...just thinking out loud--

  The rationale is to level the playing field—but in reality, it might wind up making this event more about little Civics than I'd want, so I doubt we'd change the tire rule.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 9:54 a.m. ss New Reader

  93EXCivic wrote:

  I don't really like the street tires rule because in my experience it is much easier to find used race slicks then decent performance tires for a reasonable amount of money.

  That is true. but it could change it up. big time AWD FTW!!

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:02 a.m. darkbuddha Reader

  Substitute rally-x for auto-x next year, but leave tire selection completely open.

  (let the flaming begin)

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:03 a.m. eastsidemav HalfDork

  I've got no problems with the fire extinguisher rules, but the tires scare me a bit. A lot of drivers seem to ditch R-comps when they still have a little life left in them, but I don't see used ST tires as much. I think more people run those to the cords before ditching them. You'd end up with some competitors on Azenis, and others on whatever Cooper sells cheap.

  One concern I have is the rules that are ignored. I'm not one to call someone out, as I figure that's up to the concours/event people, but there seemed to be several cars flouting the "street" rules like headlights, etc, and some others. I have no problem if certain restrictions are eliminated, I just don't want to play guessing games while building a car on such a limited budget.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:11 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  Hmm. I didn't see any cars without headlights------I'll look through the pictures and see what you're talking about.

  The smaller windshields on open cars is because I opened up a can of worms by allowing windows to be replaced with lexan---and didn't clarify that this was back and side windows only.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:11 a.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  agree with fire extinguisher
  

  disagree with tire for the reasons mentioned by others

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:13 a.m. ss New Reader

  darkbuddha wrote:

  Substitute rally-x for auto-x next year, but leave tire selection completely open.

  (let the flaming begin)

  Ditch both of them and let's do the mini road coarse. The pro drivers can drive for anyone not feeling up to speed. And have some type of penalty for dumb driving like the lemons crew does.
  

  Also a rain date for the ones who travel.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:21 a.m. eastsidemav HalfDork

  Per Schroeder wrote:

  Hmm. I didn't see any cars without headlights------I'll look through the pictures and see what you're talking about.

  The smaller windshields on open cars is because I opened up a can of worms by allowing windows to be replaced with lexan---and didn't clarify that this was back and side windows only.

  I could just as easily be wrong - I took a bunch of pictures during downtime, and I'll take a look and see if I can find any examples, or if it was a figment of my imagination.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:22 a.m. Ben New Reader

  Excuse the input from a newb, but here are my thoughts...

  1) I understand the rationale, but it will be much harder to find worthwhile "street" takeoffs as compared to slicks, especially at a reasonable price.

  2) Good rule.

  3) Proposed rule addition. If wheel flies off car due to non tightened lug nuts, severe penalty is assessed. Come on guys, spectators have been severally injured (even fatally so) at race tracks by flying wheels. And, in the case of lug nuts, is 100% preventable.

  4) Comment. Tech inspection was pretty lax. I know that it was provided by the race track, so please don't think I'm saying anything bad about GRM or the event. The only thing my inspector "checked" was if my strut bar was secured(!)(?) Not sure why. I was expecting them to do the normal check of the throttle and brakes, look for obvious leaks, check the battery hold down, etc. None of that was done by the guy who inspected my car.

  5) Thanks for putting on a great event.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:24 a.m. mndsm SuperDork

  ss wrote:

  darkbuddha wrote:

  Substitute rally-x for auto-x next year, but leave tire selection completely open.

  (let the flaming begin)

  Ditch both of them and let's do the mini road coarse. The pro drivers can drive for anyone not feeling up to speed. And have some type of penalty for dumb driving like the lemons crew does.
  

  Also a rain date for the ones who travel.

  I was quite curious as to the rain date myself. While Vorschlag beat Andy fair and square on autox and show, I'd imagine that Andy winning drags by a wide enough margin would have given him the win. I'm not calling anyone out, far from it, but it seems like someone got lucky because of the weather.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:25 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  The NHRA Tech, in the past, was pretty stout--they were even checking rollbar height last year. Interesting news. I'll make sure we have one of us down there next year.

  I'm making wheel studs/bolts free in the budget next year....and will consider your idea as well.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:27 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  Unfortunately, securing the track for an extra weekend day--and getting people there--is not something that we can handle logistically or financially at $4000 per day for that track reservation.

  We've had rain cancel 3 drag days in the 12 challenges we've run.....

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:29 a.m. MadScientistMatt Dork

  Per Schroeder wrote: 2) Requiring fire extinguishers to be installed and within reach of the driver. Free for the budget, but you still need to buy one. real 5BC extinguishers are about $50.
  

  And make sure they have a metal mounting bracket and aren't "secured" to something breakable. I've seen a lot of "automotive" fire extinguishers that don't look very safe.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:31 a.m. dyintorace SuperDork

  eastsidemav wrote:

  One concern I have is the rules that are ignored. I'm not one to call someone out, as I figure that's up to the concours/event people, but there seemed to be several cars flouting the "street" rules like headlights, etc, and some others. I have no problem if certain restrictions are eliminated, I just don't want to play guessing games while building a car on such a limited budget.

  Maybe you're thinking of our car on the headlight front. It certainly looks like we don't have any (given the big empty holes where they formerly resided) but we do have functioning lights fab'd up in the former turn signal openings.

  
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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:31 a.m. ss New Reader

  eastsidemav wrote:

  One concern I have is the rules that are ignored. I'm not one to call someone out, as I figure that's up to the concours/event people, but there seemed to be several cars flouting the "street" rules like headlights, etc, and some others. I have no problem if certain restrictions are eliminated, I just don't want to play guessing games while building a car on such a limited budget.

  Agreed as well. How many cars could make it to the track from the hotel legally??? When I get salty about losing this is always the first thing I bring up,for about 2 minutes then I get over it.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:32 a.m. Karl La Follette Dork

  If rain is forecast for saturday drag and friday is clear allow one run drags for friday , 1 hr max time for runs 4 till 5 oclock

  I

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:34 a.m. ss New Reader

  Per Schroeder wrote:

  Unfortunately, securing the track for an extra weekend day--and getting people there--is not something that we can handle logistically or financially at $4000 per day for that track reservation.

  We've had rain cancel 3 drag days in the 12 challenges we've run.....

  What are the chances of running drags with autox if there is a threat of rain for Saturday??

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:35 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  Karl, that's a pretty good solution---I'll see if I can work that into the contract for next year. They have manpower there--but less so on Friday--but that seems reasonable.
  

  Per

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:37 a.m. Greg Voth HalfDork

  I think the tire rule is interesting and would support it. I am not sure where everyone finds huge hoosiers for $50 but deals are out there. I am pretty happy with how we fared on the all season good years so I would be fine with it.

  Guido made what I thought was a good suggestion about the autocross. He had other thoughts about classes etc. that I will let him comment on.
  

  Basically for those driving their own car and not using the pro's there should be an hour of basically "practice" runs to learn the course.
  

  I agree with him because it is much more difficult to get out there and learn the course to any extent in the 4-5 runs allowed. The pros get a whole lot of runs allowing them to focus on the car and not the course. Additionally this may help encourage people to run their own stuff without fear of giving up the positions. I know I personally would have like one or two runs around the course rather than trying to go flat out the whole time.

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:37 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  Is the Jet Track Dryer something they only rent for big events?

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  Oct. 10, 2011 10:40 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  dyintorace wrote:

  eastsidemav wrote:

  One concern I have is the rules that are ignored. I'm not one to call someone out, as I figure that's up to the concours/event people, but there seemed to be several cars flouting the "street" rules like headlights, etc, and some others. I have no problem if certain restrictions are eliminated, I just don't want to play guessing games while building a car on such a limited budget.

  Maybe you're thinking of our car on the headlight front. It certainly looks like we don't have any (given the big empty holes where they formerly resided) but we do have functioning lights fab'd up in the former turn signal openings.

  

  and we did drive the car to the event.

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