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  • Type Q

    Aug. 29, 2008 11:51 a.m. Type Q Reader

    Chrysler in it's current for may well end. I suspect that the valuable pieces/brands get sold off to the highest bidder rather than a complete shut down of everything. Someone is going to want the Jeep brand. Someone will buy the rights to the viper. I am sure there are other treasures in the Chrysler infrastructure that will be bought cheap.

    I remember 10 to 15 years ago when Chrysler was sitting on something like $1 billion in cash that they had set aside so that they would be ready for downturn like we have right now. Of course Carl Icahn(sp?) and his merry band of Wall Street second guessers demanded that it be given away in dividends, so Chrsyler was forced to go looking for new way to survive.

  • neon4891

    Aug. 29, 2008 11:40 p.m. neon4891 Dork

    MitchellC wrote:

    The concept behind the Durango HEMI hybrid just boggles my mind. An American SUV that starts at $45k and gets 19/20 mileage. I'm guessing they only plan on running the production line for one day?

    are you berkeleying serious, are they trying to make an SUV that makes the tahoe hybrid look good???!!!!

  • ignorant

    Aug. 30, 2008 6:31 a.m. ignorant UberDork

    neon4891 wrote:

    MitchellC wrote:

    The concept behind the Durango HEMI hybrid just boggles my mind. An American SUV that starts at $45k and gets 19/20 mileage. I'm guessing they only plan on running the production line for one day?

    are you berkeleying serious, are they trying to make an SUV that makes the tahoe hybrid look good???!!!!

    There is something in the works for the durango that will have it getting 30mpg. I cannot comment more.

    http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/HW/1_Hummin_Cummins.mp3 (note great 1970's promotion song for Cummins with Ed bruce doing a "convoy" like song....)

    reserve power for constant speed bitches

  • Schmidlap

    Aug. 30, 2008 2:01 p.m. Schmidlap New Reader

    I guess I'll be the lone dissenter here and say this is a good move for Chrysler. If they can sell off the Viper brand, it will give them a nice infusion of cash to make the necessary changes to their lineup to stay alive, and dump an unprofitable model that eats up a lot of resources. It will help them move towards meeting the 35mpg standard in 2020. They'll still get the 'halo' effect of the Viper even if someone else owns it since the typical member of the public won't realize that its no longer a Dodge.

    I agree that its sad to have come to this, but times are tough and they need to do everything they can to survive. The competition in the sports car market is getting tougher too, with the R8, GT-R, the new Lexus, the return of the NSX, Alfa returning to the US, etc. Maybe Chrysler realizes that with more cars entering the market and a limited number of customers, they'll lose market share and the Viper will become even more of a drain on the company. Unfortunately, to survive in business, sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions.

    Bob

  • ignorant

    Aug. 30, 2008 4:46 p.m. ignorant UberDork

    I agree with schmidlap.

    The Hydraulically driven fan system is just one of the many money sucking idiot ideas on the viper.. I used to make them at valeo.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20001122/press031377.html

    heavy and unreliable.

  • MrJoshua

    Aug. 30, 2008 5:35 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

    ignorant wrote:

    I agree with schmidlap.

    The Hydraulically driven fan system is just one of the many money sucking idiot ideas on the viper.. I used to make them at valeo.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20001122/press031377.html

    heavy and unreliable.

    Im just going to follow you around and disagree with your posts for a few minutes. The hydraulic fan on my SC400 seemed lighter than an electric equivalent and was still going strong when I sold it at over 200k.

  • iceracer

    Aug. 30, 2008 6:10 p.m. iceracer Reader

    I heard that Chrysler was planning on discontinuing the Viper shortly anyway. It is getting old.

  • Jensenman

    Aug. 30, 2008 6:15 p.m. Jensenman UltimaDork

    The Grand Cherokee hydraulic fans seem to work pretty well. I sometimes wonder if they are really a good idea, though; AFAIK a hydraulic fan can never get anywhere close to a direct drive or electric fan system for efficiency.

    Trivia: the first hydraulic fan setup I saw was on a Caterpillar D10 bulldozer. The radiator was mounted so high above the engine that it was the only practical way to do it. That D10 is a huge sumbitch, too.

  • neon4891

    Aug. 30, 2008 9:47 p.m. neon4891 Dork

    I drove a dozer when I was 14, some italian brand that made cat clones...

  • Helterskelter

    Aug. 31, 2008 10:34 a.m. Helterskelter Reader

    Jensenman:

    From the article:

    "Our system is much quieter and more efficient than traditional fans that connect directly to the engine through a clutch."

    Then, the article also states that larger vehicles don't use electric fans because they can't move enough air. So why not fit a larger alternator and just run a larger electric fan? Sorry for going so off-topic.

  • drydock

    Sept. 2, 2008 10:09 p.m. drydock None

    You nailed it. It goes like this: Sell off divisions, Viper, Jeep, Truck line and don’t forget the mini-van. Follow that up with licensing “Dodge” Chrysler” even “Plymouth” brand names to some Chinese, Indian, or Vietnamese company that we haven’t even heard of yet. Finish by letting the government cover the UAW legacy cost.

    Chrysler was bankrupt in 1979, 1989 and finished in the 90's right before the German’s went on their bender. Ford and GM will get help. Chrysler will have to get out.

  • mad0953

    Sept. 3, 2008 11:55 a.m. mad0953 New Reader

    BTW, Chrysler makes money on the Viper.....it is far from unprofitable. Percentage wise it makes more than any other Chrysler car. I think Cerebus will kill it or sell it because they are just a bunch of money grubbers.

  • Varkwso

    Sept. 4, 2008 5:00 p.m. Varkwso Reader

    mad0953 wrote:

    ....... The Vette is for bald headed old farts that can't drive....hence traction control, stabiltiy control etc. etc. The Viper is a driver's car....not for the faint of heart white hair crowd. Though it's not really a daily driver unless you like to be tortured, but then neither is an F1 car. I picked the Viper to put in my garage and BTW my 99 Turbo Miata is my dd.

    I couldn't care less if they got rid of the Viper or not. Owning one is an experience one shouldn't miss if you love cars like I do. Also it took me over 10 years to save up the dough to get one.......I am a car lover on a very tight budget.

    My 2 cents worth. :)

    I chose a new 2002 Z06 over a new Viper ACR - loved the Viper but it lost to the ZO6 for all around car in my case.

    I will add a Viper ACR to the fleet one day - until then I have to wait for my hair to fall out....

    So what tracks do you take the Viper or Miata?

  • ignorant

    Sept. 4, 2008 6:10 p.m. ignorant UberDork

    MrJoshua wrote:

    ignorant wrote:

    I agree with schmidlap.

    The Hydraulically driven fan system is just one of the many money sucking idiot ideas on the viper.. I used to make them at valeo.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20001122/press031377.html

    heavy and unreliable.

    Im just going to follow you around and disagree with your posts for a few minutes. The hydraulic fan on my SC400 seemed lighter than an electric equivalent and was still going strong when I sold it at over 200k.

    maybe on a lexus.. but geez.. That valeo thing was a pile. Built them in Rochester NY.. what a money waster for everyone involved.

    Now that I remember, these were early units in 2000 First off HDFS. I still don't care for making a non upsized P-steering pump do double duty.

  • mad0953

    Sept. 5, 2008 11:01 a.m. mad0953 New Reader

    Varkwso wrote:

    mad0953 wrote:

    ....... The Vette is for bald headed old farts that can't drive....hence traction control, stabiltiy control etc. etc. The Viper is a driver's car....not for the faint of heart white hair crowd. Though it's not really a daily driver unless you like to be tortured, but then neither is an F1 car. I picked the Viper to put in my garage and BTW my 99 Turbo Miata is my dd.

    I couldn't care less if they got rid of the Viper or not. Owning one is an experience one shouldn't miss if you love cars like I do. Also it took me over 10 years to save up the dough to get one.......I am a car lover on a very tight budget.

    My 2 cents worth. :)

    I chose a new 2002 Z06 over a new Viper ACR - loved the Viper but it lost to the ZO6 for all around car in my case.

    I will add a Viper ACR to the fleet one day - until then I have to wait for my hair to fall out....

    So what tracks do you take the Viper or Miata?

  • mad0953

    Sept. 5, 2008 11:05 a.m. mad0953 New Reader

    Can't afford to track the Viper. Take the Miata to PIR in Portland, Thunder Hill in Cali.

    I will agree the Z06 is a far better daily driver and it is on my list as well for when I retire and start traveling. My GF is almost 6' tall and the Miata is a little too small for any trip over about 100 miles.

    The Viper is a throwback to the 60's in my opinion. It reminds me of a lot of the muscle cars from back then (when I was a teenager). Big, heavy, lots of cubic inches and it makes a lot of great sounds. If the Corvette is a exacto knife then the Viper is a hammer.

  • Varkwso

    Sept. 6, 2008 6:28 a.m. Varkwso Reader

    mad0953 wrote:

    Can't afford to track the Viper. Take the Miata to PIR in Portland, Thunder Hill in Cali.

    I will agree the Z06 is a far better daily driver and it is on my list as well for when I retire and start traveling. My GF is almost 6' tall and the Miata is a little too small for any trip over about 100 miles.

    The Viper is a throwback to the 60's in my opinion. It reminds me of a lot of the muscle cars from back then (when I was a teenager). Big, heavy, lots of cubic inches and it makes a lot of great sounds. If the Corvette is a exacto knife then the Viper is a hammer.

    Driving the Viper reminds me of driving my old 1967 427 Vette and 1969 L88 Vette on track (tracking those now are well above my income level!). Stiff clutch, poor ventilation, no ABS, exhaust heat, and visibility issues - but man the throttle modulation has to be experienced to be believed.

    Your analogy is very close to what I said about driving a GT3 RS and C6Z back-to-back at Roebling Road Racetrack earlier this year - one is a scalpel and the other is Bowie knife. Both were amazingly fast and responsive - but I was faster overall in the C6Z (comfort level had a lot to do with that). I turned down a chance to drive a Viper that day (working on my car in the paddock cuts down on track options) - but I have driven several already on track - I would put the Viper in the meat cleaver category - also fast.

  • exST165

    Sept. 6, 2008 8:17 p.m. exST165 New Reader

    mad0953 wrote: Can't afford to track the Viper.
    My GF is almost 6' tall
    The Viper is a throwback to the 60's in my opinion. It reminds me of a lot of the muscle cars from back then (when I was a teenager).

    Don't tell my wife, but you sir are my hero: owns a Viper and has a 6' girlfriend while at least in his 50s (13 years old in 1969 is 52 years old in 2008) if not 60s.

    Back on topic, now that Chrysler has been bought out by private equity it would be a tough political sale to be seen giving them free money. Helping the working man keep his job is one thing, bailing out the ultra-rich who own it is another.

    The Fed spotted JP Morgan the cash to buy out Bear Sterns because they were scared stupid that the entire financial system may implode if Bear defaulted on all of their positions. That and the shareholders of Bear (30% of whom were employees) lost their shirt in the process. JP Morgan will probably make good money on the whole mess, but I'm guessing that the Fed chalked that up as a necessary evil to get a solution.

    A complete government buy out for Chrysler like was being rumoured for Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac a few weeks ago just wouldn't happen IMHO. I read an article that speculated that all Fanny and Freddy shares would default (or whatever) become worthless. I can't see Cebrus letting their entire investment being vaporized, they would rather fire-sale everything they could get their hands on for pennies on the dollar rather than effectively handing the government the keys and walking away.

    My money says that sometime in the next six to eighteen months Cebrus make a decision to either fish or cut bait, and if they make the decision that Chrysler is not a viable automaker they are going to sell off every division and name brand with any value and fold what's left.

  • MitchellC

    Sept. 6, 2008 11:29 p.m. MitchellC Reader

    I just remembered I saw an early targa Viper, black with silver stripes, at a Carquest the other day. Other than the wheels, the design is aging pretty well.

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