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Aeromoto
Aeromoto HalfDork
1/19/13 1:59 p.m.

I don't know how many of you read GRM's sister magazine Classic Motorsports and have been following their Shelby GT350, but they had a car with a story to tell through it's well earned patina, something that would stop most people in their tracks, and by painting it have set it awash in a sea of boring restored Shelbys and Shelby clones. (Because as you know, Carrol Shelby at best made a few thousand Shelby Mustangs, and at least a few million have survived ) Does anyone else agree that it's more interesting to see a well worn car over one that's been restored?

before

after, yuck!

JKleiner
JKleiner New Reader
1/19/13 2:10 p.m.

As the saying goes, "it's only original once". I'm good with patina on something like the GT350 in question and personally would get more pleasure from seeing it in that cosmetic state albeit with restored/refreshed mechanicals---but since I don't own it my vote doesn't count.

Jeff

oldtin
oldtin UltraDork
1/19/13 2:10 p.m.

fine line where cool patina crosses over to beater. For the CM audience, I'm thinking the shelby had crossed the line.

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed Dork
1/19/13 2:15 p.m.

I generally would agree with you but I think in this case and with the some what unusual color it's better restored. It's a tough call either way though.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg UltimaDork
1/19/13 2:33 p.m.

I'm thinking the Patina deal is just a fad, only if the paint is excellent and there is no rust is it a good idea on a true classic

My .02c

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
1/19/13 2:34 p.m.

Actually, I think the saying goes "It's my car and my magazine, and I'll do whatever the berkeley I want with both."

What's with all the "Hey, thanks for inviting me to your party. I'm going to take a nice hearty E36 M3 in the middle of your living room" talk lately?

aussiesmg
aussiesmg UltimaDork
1/19/13 2:42 p.m.

Besides the car gets another write up for the paint in the mag because of this.

bravenrace
bravenrace PowerDork
1/19/13 2:58 p.m.

I agree, and have the same issue with my Mustang. Although it's not that valuable, it does have the original paint, but it also needs painted. I've been in a dilemma for years about it. But there's another difference between my car and this one. This one had rust, and it was rust that needed repaired. And they didn't redo the whole car, only the parts that needed it, so at least according to the article, it still has some of that patina. There's a fine line between patina and garbage.

Aeromoto
Aeromoto HalfDork
1/19/13 3:27 p.m.

Ok, ok, so maybe I'm taking it a bit too personally, but I recently had a similar gutwrenching encounter of my own---

I recently sold my '63 Mercury Monterey Colony Park on ebay. It is, or was an all 100% original 65k mile, original paint, interior, engine compartment, beautifully preserved car (aside from the Cragar wheels I put on it to give it a bit of So-Cal surf flair). Sure the paint was a bit faded, the original faux wood trim was faded, it had some scratches and dings, etc but no rust, perfect original red interior, etc. Granted, the wagon was in waaay better condition than the original condition of this Shelby, but while the car showed some wear, it was an honest car and that wear and patina told the story of it's life, right down to the bumper stickers dating back to the 1960s. Faded paint and all, the car would stop people in their tracks at car shows and such, in disbelief of it's original condition. And then there were the people who didn't get it, asking when I planned to restore it, who were all shocked to hear me say "never!".

Now I understand that the market on Shelbys is way different than the market on my lowly wagon, but long story short, I put the wagon on Ebay and it was bid up and sold for a five digit figure. Not long after, the car showed back up on Ebay, sadly having a complete repaint, a hideous underhood rattlecan resto, etc, etc, so I can only guess that the buyer bought it with some idea of doing a quick resto and flip? It made me sick to my stomach that he ruined 50 years of patina, but my vindication was that the car failed to break four digits in it's Ebay auction, and as far as I know is still for sale. Why? I truly believe that he ruined the character and presence of the wagon, now it's just another restored car in an ocean of fresh paint and Armor-All.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
1/19/13 5:10 p.m.

Tim can certainly give you more specifics, but he's on the road for a few more days.

But redoing the Shelby was certainly something that didn't happen on a whim. Basically it was in danger of transitioning from patina to rusty piece of crap. In Florida we have certain environmental conditions that make it very difficult to freeze a car at any moment in its degradation that isn't fully protected. Cosmetic rust turns to dangerous rot in a hurry, and it's easy to let something decay to the point where it's not recoverable.

jg

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy Reader
1/19/13 5:13 p.m.

Well Crap, I figure A man who lives, breathes, eats and sleeps cars might want to stimulate various parts of his car enthusiast's brain. Here's one direction you could go... here's another... You know, serving his audience as well as he can in a given idiom. Standing in glass houses, I choose to throw no stones.

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
1/19/13 5:14 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: Actually, I think the saying goes "It's my car and my magazine, and I'll do whatever the berkeley I want with both." What's with all the "Hey, thanks for inviting me to your party. I'm going to take a nice hearty E36 M3 in the middle of your living room" talk lately?

People think because they can say something, that they have something worth listening to.

/irony

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UberDork
1/19/13 5:49 p.m.
poopshovel wrote: What's with all the "Hey, thanks for inviting me to your party. I'm going to take a nice hearty E36 M3 in the middle of your living room" talk lately?

That's what I was thinking.

dankspeed
dankspeed Reader
1/19/13 6:02 p.m.
Datsun310Guy wrote:
poopshovel wrote: What's with all the "Hey, thanks for inviting me to your party. I'm going to take a nice hearty E36 M3 in the middle of your living room" talk lately?

Well said. Some people are iceholes!

Aeromoto
Aeromoto HalfDork
1/19/13 6:08 p.m.
Datsun310Guy wrote:
poopshovel wrote: What's with all the "Hey, thanks for inviting me to your party. I'm going to take a nice hearty E36 M3 in the middle of your living room" talk lately?

That's what I was thinking.

It's not that I'm E36 M3ting on anyone, and ok my reaction might have been a bit strong. But what exactly are you saying? We should only share opinions if they are 100% agreeable? Even if I'm totally full of E36 M3, which most times I am, we are the people that subscribe to the GRM and CM magazines, support their events, buy their gear, etc, so if we aren't entitled to express an opinion here, who exactly is?

mblommel
mblommel Reader
1/19/13 6:17 p.m.

Patina is one thing. Rust holes are another.

It was cool that they kept it "barn find" for a while, but I'm glad it's got a proper repaint now. Look at the bright side, at least they didn't paint it red.

Maroon92
Maroon92 MegaDork
1/19/13 7:10 p.m.

I ache for an early 912 with "patina", but they are becoming very light on the ground.

I understand what was done, and why, but I'd rather move the car to Arizona where it won't rot than repaint it in Florida.

forzav12
forzav12 HalfDork
1/19/13 7:14 p.m.

happy shiny people Shelby

dankspeed
dankspeed Reader
1/19/13 7:16 p.m.
Aeromoto wrote:
Datsun310Guy wrote:
poopshovel wrote: What's with all the "Hey, thanks for inviting me to your party. I'm going to take a nice hearty E36 M3 in the middle of your living room" talk lately?

That's what I was thinking.

It's not that I'm E36 M3ting on anyone, and ok my reaction might have been a bit strong. But what exactly are you saying? We should only share opinions if they are 100% agreeable? Even if I'm totally full of E36 M3, which most times I am, we are the people that subscribe to the GRM and CM magazines, support their events, buy their gear, etc, so if we aren't entitled to express an opinion here, who exactly is?

I thought your comment wasn't all that bad but how you worded the title of your post sounded a bit dickish. Just my opinion.

redrabbit
redrabbit Reader
1/19/13 7:18 p.m.

I think Tim did the right thing. Im from Ohio and I dont need to see any more rust buckets. It was an interesting "barn find" but it needed work.

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
1/19/13 7:23 p.m.
But what exactly are you saying?

I'm saying it's bad form.

You can walk into my shop and say "I think your work sucks." At which point I'll say "Well it's a good thing no one's holding a gun to your head asking you to buy it."

Now if you stand in the front door of my shop shouting "MIKE'S WORK SUCKS! WHO'S WITH ME!?" You'll be lucky if the worst I do is tell you to get the berkeley out of my store and don't ever come back.

You can tell me, here, that my car sucks and it's a piece of E36 M3. Bold move from a guy with a primered turd with goofy stripes in his avatar, but whatever, I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

If you want to tell Tim Suddard that he should be "ashamed," there's a "contact" button up there ^^^ somewhere, as well as a "Letters to the editor" section or whatever in the mag. Shoot him an email! I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he'll respond, and with a level of professionalism I'll obviously never possess.

At face value, I agree with your assessment. I'd rather see a ratty, original Shelby of that vintage than a clean one. For your average CM reader, I'm guessing the opposite is true. Good news is, no one's stopping either of us from buying our own Shelby rat and leaving it rock stock.

If nothing else, please keep in mind that there has obviously some "cost-benefit analysis" regarding the message board lately, specifically as it pertains to political stuff. You go poking the bear enough, and he might just decide to burn the whole goddamned forest down.

So yeah. I think it's bad form. That's my opinion. Doesn't mean I think your an shiny happy person. Certainly doesn't warrant a "You should be ashamed."

ddavidv
ddavidv PowerDork
1/19/13 7:28 p.m.

I thought it was pretty funny how, when that car showed up, such a big deal was made over leaving it as original as possible. Then, about two issues in, stuff started to get painted. I knew it was over then.

But sheesh, even I think the slamming in the original post was a bit harsh, and I'm not conservative of my criticisms (Margie probably has my name in her patio Rolodex). I honestly didn't think the car was all that nice when they got it. There's patina, and then there's 'looks like ass'. The Shelby was roaring towards the latter, IMO.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/19/13 7:29 p.m.

Worn from use is cool. Ratty is not. Ratty is just neglected.

Aeromoto
Aeromoto HalfDork
1/19/13 7:37 p.m.

Ok, when I typed "you should be ashamed", it was just an expression on a car forum, I did not mean it to say "Tim, you are the second coming of Hitler, Charlie Manson, and Osama Bin Laden combined". Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings.

Aeromoto
Aeromoto HalfDork
1/19/13 7:47 p.m.

and I still contend that keeping that Shelby as "ratty, rough, lousy, or beater-ish" as some of you have called it, was the modern equivalent of the actor Peter Helm showing up at the Ferrari Owners Club meetings back in the 1960s in his 250 GT SWB California spider painted olive drab with US Army star, and an army canteen screwed to the front bumper, in a giant "F@ck you!" to convention.

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