Grassroots Motorsports

Register Log in to GRM
- Community

Birthdays
Recently on the Classic Motorsports forums

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Cryogenics?

July 26, 2010 8:30 p.m. flountown New Reader

So has anyone here looked into cryogenically treating engine, brake or drivetrain parts?

If so what have their results been? My work is currently exploring doing this to our tooling and wearable race car parts.

It seems pretty intriguing in terms of extending the life of parts that generally face a lot of wear and tear. The prices also seem very reasonable as well. All the sites I have checked out seem to be backed up by university and government research.

If anyone has had experience, please share...
July 27, 2010 5:19 a.m. CLNSC3 Reader

I had a Nissan NX2000, which have a very weak third gear. Anything much about stock power levels and the trannys grenade. My car had a GTI-R sr20det sway and after blowing through two stock trannys I had my third one cryo treated and it lasted for the remainder of my ownership!
July 27, 2010 5:59 a.m. 914Driver SuperDork

I bought a Schrick cam for a BMW 2002 that was "chill hardened". Cryo case hardeneing?

Dan
July 27, 2010 6:16 a.m. 44Dwarf HalfDork

I have a freind who works for a large computer chip company with a state name in it.. They send out tons of tooling for cyro treatment. He's sent in most of his engine and sent in one of my crankshafts and a set of cams. Did it help? I don't realy know but the motor did last forever for a race motor got 9 seasons out of it.
July 27, 2010 8:04 a.m. zomby woof Dork

When I looked into this about 5 years ago, the conclusion I came to was,

Everybody believes in the theory.

As many knowledgeable people swore by it, as said it was a technology that was still in development (doesn't work)

I could only find anecdotal evidence that it worked (I used it, and my parts didn't break).

The big problem seemed to be that the process, and parameters were too difficult to control.
July 27, 2010 8:12 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

No, but I have used it to successfully mask the time of dea... wait, what now?
July 27, 2010 9:06 a.m. ditchdigger HalfDork

I had a cam reground and the grinder offered cryo treating for another 20 clams so I popped on it. Pulled the cam out 1200 miles later and it still looked the same. :shrug:
July 27, 2010 9:08 a.m. zomby woof Dork

For $20 he probably popped it in the freezer overnight.
July 27, 2010 9:14 a.m. 44Dwarf HalfDork

From what I've gathered from my freind at XX they see a huge increase in life on tooling dies used to stamp plastic blisters used in things like keyboard buttons. He also told me the guy at the cryo house said ~60% of his work was knitting needles for a rope manufacture.
July 27, 2010 9:34 a.m. Stealthtercel Reader

>>The big problem seemed to be that the process, and parameters were too difficult to control.

It seems to me that Manufacturer XX is coming close to a controlled experiment: if they use similar tooling in similar ways, and treated tooling lasts longer, then that's better data than some of the other uses that have been cited. (Presumably the rope manufacturer would agree.)
July 27, 2010 9:39 a.m. scardeal Reader

It preserved Sylvester Stallone for 30 years or so...

But, really, the documentary I watched a few years ago claimed it had been really effective in testing.
July 27, 2010 11:58 a.m. Raze HalfDork

http://www.cryoplus.com/pdf/icwptct.pdf

I would read the associated papers from NASA and Lubrication Engineering...
July 27, 2010 12:44 p.m. ditchdigger HalfDork

zomby woof wrote:

For $20 he probably popped it in the freezer overnight.

LOL! I thought that too but he actually posted a vid of the cryo treatment facility with my cam in the batch on youtube.
July 27, 2010 12:50 p.m. spitfirebill Dork

Once upon a time wanted to be a metalurgist. It didn't happen. But I ahve watched several black smithing specials on TLC etc and they discuss heating the metal white hot, pounding the snot out of it and then quenching it to arrange the molecules in lines Why wouldn't cryogenics be able to do something similar?
July 27, 2010 1:00 p.m. slefain Dork

I thought about getting into the cryo treatment business because I can get the supplied dirt cheap. The theory behind it seems to make sense to me.
July 27, 2010 2:02 p.m. scardeal Reader

I think the difficulty in the cryo treatment process is control. You need to cool the parts something like 1 degree per minute all the way down to -200 something degrees celsius to make a difference.

If you cool it too quickly, it'll become brittle and shatter when stressed. Scary stuff.
July 27, 2010 3:00 p.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

Damn, if $state_name Instruments does it, that's a big endorsement of it's usefulness IMO.
July 27, 2010 3:07 p.m. chuckles New Reader

I don't keep up with the firearms press the way I used to, but this was all the rage a few years ago for high-volume, high power rifle barrels. Rapid fire sports (NRA Across-The- Course, Silhouette, etc.) burns the throat in front of the chamber. Some said the cyro treatment made for longer barrel life and easier cleaning, some said no change.

That's all I got.
July 27, 2010 3:20 p.m. digdug18 HalfDork

chuckles wrote:

I don't keep up with the firearms press the way I used to, but this was all the rage a few years ago for high-volume, high power rifle barrels. Rapid fire sports (NRA Across-The- Course, Silhouette, etc.) burns the throat in front of the chamber. Some said the cyro treatment made for longer barrel life and easier cleaning, some said no change.

That's all I got.

Kinda like moly lube's years ago.
July 28, 2010 2:31 a.m. curtis73 HalfDork

The process is sound in theory. Kinda like if you put your pillows in a vacuum bag. The thought is that when you super-cool the metal, the molecules are forced to re-align in a more sturdy crystalline structure. I have yet to see proof that it works in the real world, but cryo treatment has been very successful in homogenizing test equipment for the scientific community

The question is... is the big money you lay out worth it? I usually build American V8s. I can buy cams for $18. :)

I think of it like this. I have two choices with my current restoration project: 1) strip the frame and have it blasted, powdercoated, and delivered for $1300, or 2) lift the body with a couple jacks and soak the frame with undercoating for $75.
July 28, 2010 8:11 a.m. flountown New Reader

curtis73 wrote:

The process is sound in theory. Kinda like if you put your pillows in a vacuum bag. The thought is that when you super-cool the metal, the molecules are forced to re-align in a more sturdy crystalline structure. I have yet to see proof that it works in the real world, but cryo treatment has been very successful in homogenizing test equipment for the scientific community

The question is... is the big money you lay out worth it? I usually build American V8s. I can buy cams for $18. :)

I think of it like this. I have two choices with my current restoration project: 1) strip the frame and have it blasted, powdercoated, and delivered for $1300, or 2) lift the body with a couple jacks and soak the frame with undercoating for $75.

Well, if you go specifically by what a company would charge an individual racer, then yes it can get pricey. But I work for a race car company and could get my stuff thrown in a batch with tooling, and the lot charge is only 75 dollars per process, for whatever fits in their machine. So if you find the right connection, you could probably fit an entire engines worth of parts in one batch.
July 28, 2010 11:40 a.m. digdug18 HalfDork

I guess the question then is, are all the cryo process's the same? Can they be harmful to the parts you send in? Where is the cheapest place to get them done, that is racer friendly.

You'll need to log in to post.