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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Daily Driver/Weekend Warrior Track car?

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Nov. 27, 2009 11:16 a.m. cackalak New Reader

I apologize if this is not the correct section to post this.

Next year, I am looking to retire my old 97 Civic and get a newer car. This car will be kept mostly stock and will be used as a daily driver and occasional track use (only mods will probably be suspension and 2nd set of wheels for track). Here are the four that I've narrowed down to.

1) Honda Fit - Great interior (very utilitarian), great MPG, great reliability, great handling right out of the box. But very very low on power. Quirky styling, as well.

2) Honda Civic Si (4-door) - Reports say pretty reliable. Good engine. LSD. But not so steller MPG. Not as useful as a hatchback.

3) VW GTI (MKV - 4-door hatch) - Proven 2.0T engine. Great handling. Great performance out of the box. But VW reliability? MPG not so steller. But I love the styling and looks the best out of the four.

4) Mazda 3 (Speed3?) Hatchback - Great handling. Fairly reliable? Not quite sold on the styling. Not great MPG (esp. Speed3).

I think any of the four will be fun on the track. Currently, I am leaning towards the GTI. I've never owned a VW. I've heard horror stories and never thought I'd ever consider getting one. A friend of mine is a VW-head and has had very good reliability from all of his cars. That and MKV's seem to be the more reliable out of all the other gens (perhaps because they're newer, too?).

Anyway, I chose those 4 due to decent MPG's while commuting, good performance out of the box and a hatchback design to accomodate my family (except the Si, but the 4-door sedan still is okay).
Nov. 27, 2009 11:20 a.m. ZOO Dork

I have a friend with an Si two-door. His only complaint about the car when using it for the track is that is under-braked.

Can you keep the Civic you have for family duties, and purchase a true sports car? Miata? Corvette? Boxster?
Nov. 27, 2009 11:23 a.m. petegossett Dork

What are your priorities? 8)

The Fit will outdo the rest in MPG by a good margin, but will take some $ to make it handle as well as the others(though you're right, it does handle better than expected at 9/10ths). But unless you turbo it, you'll nevr be near the power of any other cars on your list - and then forget about MPG.

It sounds like you're leaning toward Honda, so if performance outweighs mileage I'd go Civic -> Speed 3 -> GTI.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:26 a.m. cackalak New Reader

Oh, sorry, forgot to mention. I've already got three cars (wife's car, my truck and my commuter). I'd much rather have 2 cars in the garage and one in the driveway only. It'll keep the wife and neighbors happier.

Thanks for the feedback, ZOO. If his complaints were only the brakes, that's not bad. There are even OEM swap options when it comes to brakes, so no big worries. i.e. I believe the RL or TL Type S bolts right on there (or even the NSX).
Nov. 27, 2009 11:28 a.m. EPN New Reader

i'm liking the Speed 3. Great handling, very practical in the real world. and it's fast.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:29 a.m. Travis_K Dork

Dont listen to VW people about the quality of audi and vw cars. Im my experience, most of the people who drive them would walk before they drove something else, no matter how many problems VWs have.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:29 a.m. cackalak New Reader

Pete - You're right. If the Fit had a K20 in there, I'd have gotten one already. I know there are plenty that have done swaps, but not without quirks. Since it will be a daily driver, I'd rather not go too extensive on the mods.

Also, are you saying that the Civic Si would out-perform the Speed3 and the GTI?

As far as priorities, first and foremost is not leaving me stranded on the side of the road on my 40 mile commute. Then performance. Then comfort/erg.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:30 a.m. EPN New Reader

and aren't the mazda's insanely reliable? far more reliable than VWs have been in the past... don't get me wrong, i love the GTI, but german parts are expensive.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:36 a.m. cackalak New Reader

Travis - I know what you mean. VWvortex is full of them. Which is why I've stayed away from VW's for so long. But I will say that my friend is not easy on his cars and they've had virtually zero problems in the last 5 years I've know him. But it could be that his cars are factory miracles.

EPN - I know that Mazda 3's are pretty reliable, but not sure about the Speed3's. I'll have to do some research on that.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:37 a.m. petegossett Dork

On a track, I can't say which would be faster out of of the box. Obviously, adding boost is pretty easy on the Speed 3 & GTI, but that also means harder to keep your foot out of it, thus lower MPG.

If it's primary use is as an entertaining & economical DD, with secondary use as an occasional track-toy(especially if you're just doing it for fun), seems like the Si is the one I'd choose.
Nov. 27, 2009 11:43 a.m. cackalak New Reader

Pete - Yes, I've had plenty of time behind boosted cars and "light foot" and "turbo" usually don't go together.

As far as being faster out of the box, I guess that also doesn't mean THAT much to me, either. As long as it's fun on the track. I know just straight performance wise, the Speed3 has the edge here, with the GTI and Si perhaps coming in second with the Fit trailing far far far behind.

Thanks for your input. The Si is definitely very fun to drive. Just wish it came in a 4-door hatchback trim...
Nov. 27, 2009 11:54 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

'Zuk SX4?
Nov. 27, 2009 11:56 a.m. JFX001 Dork

Focus SVT 5 door?
Nov. 27, 2009 12:12 p.m. minimac Dork

I'd have to vote for the Mazda3- because I own one. Not the speed, just a plain old 3. The 2.0 is dead reliable, 5 speed is smooth and very short throws for a stock unit, gas mileage is low thirties combined, more than adequate for DD duty power, all the Speed parts are bolt-ons , good aftermarket support and low buy in in.My '09 base was under14K! The smiley face on the '10 is ugly, but the '09 and earlier front is another bolt on.
Nov. 27, 2009 12:12 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

Test drive the Si and the Mazdaspeed. See which one you like the ergonomics of. You really can't go wrong with your options.

Or, BMW 3 series.
Nov. 27, 2009 5:27 p.m. docwyte Reader

I've owned lots of VW/Audi's and maybe I've been blessed as all were very reliable.
Nov. 27, 2009 6:23 p.m. iceracer HalfDork

Since I bought my ZX2/SR in 2000 it has been a DD and 2-3 track days, a couple of autocross and ice raced every year since. The only failure I had was the differential pinion shaft came adrift at Summit Point on the Shenandoah circuit last fall. The car still has the original timing belt and spark plugs. Turned a 1:08 at Lime rock on the old surface. It will get 33+ mpg at 70-75 mph.
Nov. 27, 2009 6:25 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

Cobalt SS turbO?
Nov. 27, 2009 6:26 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

it did set a record at the ring before the Renault Mugan RR (pretty mucha full out race car) out did it.
Nov. 27, 2009 6:36 p.m. mndsm New Reader

I vote the ms3. The Cobalt SS feels like a more brutal car, it's a lot more "raw" than the ms3, especially the 2nd gen. The car for me has been dead nuts reliable, except for the motor mount TSB, but that was a dealer failure. I DD mine and see close-ish to 30mpg. Some people report a few MPG less, but even then 27MPG isn't all that bad for a car that wild. I'm not as sold on the 2g ms3, it seems too refined as compared to the 1g, and I don't much care for the interior.

Also, it hasn't been mentioned, but if you need 4 doors- look at a Cooper S Clubman. Handles 95% as well as my regular Cooper S, and has the trick barn door entry in the back. 2 door, well, again I am biased towards the r53 Cooper S.

Otherwise, I really like the Dub. Super insane solid, feels like a tank at speed.
Nov. 27, 2009 6:39 p.m. gbuff

I've been doing DEs/open track/lapping days with my MINI Cooper for years and it's been bulletproof....done nothing to it except front brake pads and wider tires. It's the September 2010 car in the new GRM calendar.
Nov. 27, 2009 6:50 p.m. mndsm New Reader

That's a great lookin car, if I may say so. My MINI S has been bulletproof as well, with 70k WELL earned miles. Kinda low on space for a lot of people though. I let the wife drive it, it prevents her from bringing too much crap home.
Nov. 27, 2009 6:56 p.m. motomoron Reader

e36 M3. By which I mean a car based on the e36 platform made between 1995 and 1999 by BMW, not the thing that the profanity filter translates into "e36 M3".

They're bulletproof and pretty stout, are absolutely, unquestionably more fun and better suited to track duty than most any Honda product (and I had nothing but Civics but for an '83 Rabbit GTI from 1980 to 2006 when I bought the aforementioned e36 M3).

Get a decent one, put in a set of brake pads and some tires and you're good to go.

Do everything possible to the car short of forced induction and you're even better to go.

Seriously. Before you buy, find one on Craigslist and go drive it. Then go drive a Fit. I dare you.
Nov. 27, 2009 7:00 p.m. bluke1 New Reader

i recently drove a friends ms3 at a track day, and WOW! coming from a rwd background, it wasn't to difficult to figure out the fwd/turbo and the car is quick. i have also driven the si and vw, but on the street only. while all are good cars, and the vw is the best looking, the ms3 felt much faster then the others. i would recommend test driving them (preferably the same day) to see which fit you the best. happy hunting!
Nov. 27, 2009 7:03 p.m. mndsm New Reader

It's too bad the OP wasn't closer to MN, I got a half dozen people that would loan you the keys to a 1g ms3 for a test drive, in varying levels of builtness.

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