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  Nov. 23, 2009 1:56 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  I have an 05 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab that I have done nothing but rave about to anyone who asks. It only gets occasional use, about 9000 miles per year. Consequently, it doesn't really get all that dirty inside. I have a set of Weather Tech mats in it which catch most of the dirt and water from my boots, so I usually just dump them out every now and then. A few times, I've noticed that the driver's side floor was a little wet but I just figured it was from some stray snow or water that missed the mat.

  I went to vacuum the truck this weekend and found that the floor is soaked. I knew immediately that water had to be getting in from somewhere on it's own.

  A little digging on the Toyota Forum turns up a Toyota Technical Service Bulletin dated March 17, 2005, when my truck was about three months old. It seems that Toyota neglected to put 25 cents worth of seam sealer along the front cowl of some early 05 Tacomas. Since I already have a tube of sealant, the cost to me is negligible and it should only take me about a minute to smear some on the cowl seam.

  Of course, I first need to remove the wiper arms, plastic cowl cover, battery, grille, front bumper and driver's side fender to access the area. Plus, I need to pull up the carpet to get it dried out and discard the wet insulation beneath it.

  Since the TSB came out when the truck was three months old, Toyota probably knew about the problem before I even bought the truck. And because it's a TSB and not a recall, they're not obligated to fix the problem, since the truck is out of warranty. The idea of goodwill on the part of the dealer was squashed when I had tried to have two other TSB's addressed about a month after the warranty was up.

  Hey Toyota, I expected better from you.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:03 p.m. Kramer HalfDork

  I bought a 1995 Chevrolet C1500 in April, 1996--used, with 23,000 miles--from a Chevy dealer. Many years later, and long after the factory warranty (3/36k?) had expired, I received notices about the wiper motor recall (circuit board malfunction) and seatbelt retractor recall. Both were fixed, at no cost, and without any other service department "suggestions."
  

  I still drive the truck daily. It now has 190,000 mostly trouble-free miles.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:11 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  That's the difference between a TSB and a Recall.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:16 p.m. sachilles Reader

  I'm guessing their warranty claims department has exceeded their allotment of cash/good will repairs with their whole frame recall fiasco.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:23 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  Don't forget the big floor mat debacle.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:27 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

  Woody wrote:

  That's the difference between a TSB and a Recall.

  800-331-4331 <-- call that number for the Customer Experience Center.

  Talk to them about how you like your truck and how this little tiny disappointment with seam sealer and some other TSB's are jading you against Toyota. Etc.. etc.. etc...

  They'll take care of you. Toyota knows one thing. It is cheaper to keep a customer, even if you have to buy back the truck (see frame issue) than it is to get a new customer. Something like 50% cheaper to keep a customer..

  I've said it before, but my dad got a free trans from Honda because he was a good customer and spoke to the USA customer care line people with respect. It's worth a shot.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:31 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  I'll give it a try before I get too deep into the truck.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:33 p.m. xci_ed6 Reader

  Park it idling, windows up, a/c and heat on full blast. Should dry out the interior in an hour or two.

  I watched the detailers at work, no joke, pressure wash the carpet while in the car. The above method is how they dried them out.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:34 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  What iggy said. I'd call and see what you can get.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:35 p.m. TJ HalfDork

  Rusty frame recall = expensive

  This one sounds like some serious labor for a simple fix..

  FWIW, I had a similar issue with Mazda. There is a TSB that says some number of fuel pumps in Mazdaspeed Miatas are no good and fail. Instead of a recall to replace them, they issued a TSB which I did not find out about until the frantic call from my wife who was stranded in a rest stop 350 miles from home because of a known problem that Mazda kept quiet - car needed a new fuel pump - eventhough the car was only a few months old with about 5,000 miles on it. That fix was cheap and not a large number of vehicles, but they did not do a recall. I am still mad at Mazda for that dumb decision and it's been 5 years since it happened. It was fixed under warranty at no cost to me - other than my wife was stranded hundreds of miles away from home for two days without a car and I had to take those days off work, and my father-in-law had to drive a few hours each way to rescure her and then repeat the trip after the car was fixed.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 2:48 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

  Welcome to reality. This is somethign I hear more and more from unhappy toyota customers shying away from new toyotas. After the last fiasco I had I can guarantee no toyota will ever see my garage again. Declining quality, short warranty and toyota shrigging the responsibility. Sounds like detroit all over again.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 3:56 p.m. Keith PowerDork

  I have no idea why Mazda felt it necessary to replace the rock-solid fuel pump used on other Miatas with that piece of junk used on the MSM. Dumb.

  Toyota did warranty/recall work on my high mileage 1989 truck when it was nearly 20 years old. That's a big reason why I didn't hesitate to buy another one.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:17 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

  Keith wrote: Toyota did warranty/recall work on my high mileage 1989 truck when it was nearly 20 years old. That's a big reason why I didn't hesitate to buy another one.

  And you bought a tundra right?
  

  Hmm...... They got their crap together, despite what bobzilla perceives.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:18 p.m. Duke SuperDork

  While I understand (and agree) with the desire to keep customers happy, there is always a fundamental public misunderstanding about what a recall is and why they are generated.

  Recalls are reserved for active safety issues, whether mandatory (ordered by the NHTSA) or voluntary (generated internally). Stuff like the Chrysler minivan steering linkage coming apart, the Ford fuel pumps exploding, etc.

  If a known problem is not an active safety issue it is almost never going to get a recall. They will wait to see if it breaks and then fix it on a per-car basis, with varying (and discretionary) degrees of warranty. But they are not required in any way to, say, bring in several thousand Miatas and replace the fuel pump just because they have a higher-than-average failure rate. No matter if it is a good PR move to do so or not, nothing requires them to do so.

  Getting angry about it is your option without doubt, and while they may be making a mistake in not doing it, they are NOT derelict in their responsibilities for not proactively fixing it.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:28 p.m. Cotton HalfDork

  ignorant wrote:

  Keith wrote: Toyota did warranty/recall work on my high mileage 1989 truck when it was nearly 20 years old. That's a big reason why I didn't hesitate to buy another one.

  And you bought a tundra right?
  

  Hmm...... They got their crap together, despite what bobzilla perceives.

  Dodge did recall work on my 95 Dodge diesel with mods and almost 200k miles. They HAVE to do the recall work from what I understand.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:36 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  Duke wrote:

  Getting angry about it is your option without doubt, and while they may be making a mistake in not doing it, they are NOT derelict in their responsibilities for not proactively fixing it.

  In this case, it represented a very small number of vehicles. This was a new model. I bought the first Double Cab Long Bed to arrive at any dealership in Connecticut. As I recall, I picked it up on New Year's eve. By March 17, they had an understanding of the problem, came up with the fix and published the TSB. My point is, they probably were aware of it before I bought the truck.

  I noticed that the carpet was a little wet several times over a long period of time, but I had no reason to suspect a leak. If I had known about this TSB, I would have investigated it sooner and addressed it at the dealership.

  And, agreed, it's not a safety issue, unless you don't like mold.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:37 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

  Cotton wrote:

  ignorant wrote:

  Keith wrote: Toyota did warranty/recall work on my high mileage 1989 truck when it was nearly 20 years old. That's a big reason why I didn't hesitate to buy another one.

  And you bought a tundra right?
  

  Hmm...... They got their crap together, despite what bobzilla perceives.

  Dodge did recall work on my 95 Dodge diesel with mods and almost 200k miles. They HAVE to do the recall work from what I understand.

  Yes.. but as someone who sat on committies to decide wether to do a campaign or not ( a campaign is less scary insider talk for recal)... I can tell you that some companies are much more prone to own the problem immeadiately, and some don't care what anyone says it is always someone else's fault.

  Now the I'm going to guess the incident that Keith was talking about with his truck was the infamous head bolt problem on the 3.0 v6. That was not a safety issue. It was merely an issue that, after many years of problems, the company decided they screwed up with the design and started replacing head bolts and gaskets. They also replaced engines in trucks that lunched due to the problem. They didn't have to do half of what they did and most other companies would have walked away. The issue started occurring in trucks that were way out of service. Toyota could have been content to sell new engines to people, ala numerous GM and Ford issues....

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:45 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

  ignorant wrote:

  Hmm...... They got their crap together, despite what bobzilla perceives.

  Ah yes.... another yoduh humper. Of course. Yoduh is perfect. They make the bestestest carz EVAR and have NEVER had ANY problems in their entire automotive existence. Only bad owners.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:48 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

  Bobzilla wrote:

  Ah yes.... another yoduh humper. Of course. Yoduh is perfect. They make the bestestest carz EVAR and have NEVER had ANY problems in their entire automotive existence. Only bad owners.

  hahahaha awesome. I could have written this response myself. I knew exactly what you were going to say....

  I never said they didn't have problems. They just deal with them in a better fashion than any other company aside from Honda.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:51 p.m. Cotton HalfDork

  ignorant wrote:

  Cotton wrote:

  ignorant wrote:

  Keith wrote: Toyota did warranty/recall work on my high mileage 1989 truck when it was nearly 20 years old. That's a big reason why I didn't hesitate to buy another one.

  And you bought a tundra right?
  

  Hmm...... They got their crap together, despite what bobzilla perceives.

  Dodge did recall work on my 95 Dodge diesel with mods and almost 200k miles. They HAVE to do the recall work from what I understand.

  Yes.. but as someone who sat on committies to decide wether to do a campaign or not ( a campaign is less scary insider talk for recal)... I can tell you that some companies are much more prone to own the problem immeadiately, and some don't care what anyone says it is always someone else's fault.

  Now the I'm going to guess the incident that Keith was talking about with his truck was the infamous head bolt problem on the 3.0 v6. That was not a safety issue. It was merely an issue that, after many years of problems, the company decided they screwed up with the design and started replacing head bolts and gaskets. They also replaced engines in trucks that lunched due to the problem. They didn't have to do half of what they did and most other companies would have walked away. The issue started occurring in trucks that were way out of service. Toyota could have been content to sell new engines to people, ala numerous GM and Ford issues....

  I have a few zip ties if you need to borrow them.

  I really don't hate Toyotas, I've had 6 at last count, however none since around 95 when they turned boring. I still have an 87 4x4 pickup that currently has a blown HG, like so many 22res seem to do.

  Sometimes you do come across as needing to get off their jock though.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:51 p.m. maroon92 UberDork

  the drivers side floor is a little wet? I probably would have let it go. but then again, I am lazy.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:55 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

  ignorant wrote:

  Bobzilla wrote:

  Ah yes.... another yoduh humper. Of course. Yoduh is perfect. They make the bestestest carz EVAR and have NEVER had ANY problems in their entire automotive existence. Only bad owners.

  hahahaha awesome. I could have written this response myself. I knew exactly what you were going to say....

  I never said they didn't have problems. They just deal with them in a better fashion than any other company aside from Honda.

  REally? Hyundai's recalling several million cars for rusty subframes. Among other silly crap to make sure they have a safe, solid cars o nthe road to keep their quality rising. But hey.... what do I know. I'm not in the biz or nothing.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 4:59 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

  Cotton wrote:

  Sometimes you do come across as needing to get off their jock though.

  Name another company in the past 40 years that has done more to advance production methods and quality control... Do it and I'll shut up.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 5:01 p.m. Cotton HalfDork

  ignorant wrote:

  Cotton wrote:

  Sometimes you do come across as needing to get off their jock though.

  Name another company in the past 40 years that has done more to advance production methods and quality control... Do it and I'll shut up.

  Yugo.....get some.

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  Nov. 23, 2009 5:05 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

  Cotton wrote:

  ignorant wrote:

  Cotton wrote:

  Sometimes you do come across as needing to get off their jock though.

  Name another company in the past 40 years that has done more to advance production methods and quality control... Do it and I'll shut up.

  Yugo.....get some.

  And you're awesome. (forgot the smiley)

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