robofunc
robofunc None
12/26/11 3:54 p.m.

My brother and I are planning to use my 2000 Integra GSR sedan as a dedicated autox project. The motor is having issues, and will probably be getting a re-build. We were thinking of selling the stock interior (which can be hard to come by and can be worth around $500) to help finance the engine work. Once we've got the interior mostly stripped, we'll probably have to run in SM (I believe). I'm not too familiar with the class, but what other modifications would we need to be competitive there? Wider tires? Slicks? LSD? More power? A totally different platform? All of the above?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
12/26/11 4:02 p.m.

A question for your question: How much autocross experience do you guys have?

robofunc
robofunc New Reader
12/26/11 4:15 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens:

We've both driven a decent amount of events, but nothing in the last couple years. At this point, we're basically looking for seat time and fun, with the idea that we'll eventually become competitive.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
12/26/11 4:35 p.m.

Someone please confirm this, but didn't I hear that SCCA Stock-class cars can change either their front or rear anti-roll bars starting in 2012? If so, your GS-R could have a new life in G Stock.

Brotus7
Brotus7 Reader
12/26/11 4:53 p.m.

In stock you've been allowed to change the front sway bar. Unless something just changed, rear sway must remain stock.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
12/26/11 5:03 p.m.
Brotus7 wrote: In stock you've been allowed to change the front sway bar. Unless something just changed, rear sway must remain stock.

Looks like that rule is being changed for 2012--change the front or the rear. If you can up the rear bar on that GS-R, it could be a contender. Add some good shocks and sticky tires....

robofunc
robofunc New Reader
12/26/11 5:34 p.m.

I've got a decent set of adjustable coilovers with 12/10k springs that should do the trick. My brother's got a set of Hoosier slicks (not legal for G stock, according to my understanding). If we can do a rear bar next year, we absolutely will.

I'm more concerned with whether we can even run in a stock class with a stripped interior. The rulebook talks about cages and passenger restraints, but I'm not seeing anything about whether the stock interior must be retained.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
12/26/11 5:48 p.m.

Before laying a wrench on the car, you need to get the rule book out and go through it cover to cover. Then decide where you want to be and plan your modifications accordingly. It's real easy to do something that seems innocuous enough only to find you just jumped to, say, Prepared class where you'll need to spend real money to be anywhere near competitive. FWIW: the full interior has to be retained for Stock class, including the rear seat. The carpet can be cut to allow for roll cage mounts, but that's about the extent of what's allowed.

My suggestion: get the engine back together stock, then stick a set of DOT race rubber on it on the stock wheels, and spend a season running Stock class. Learn what the car is capable of stock and what its weaknesses are. At the end of that season, go back over what you have learned and see what you need to do combined with what you learned from the Solo rules.

Oh, and don't forget: Have fun!

aussiesmg
aussiesmg SuperDork
12/26/11 5:50 p.m.

Coilovers will take you out of stock class, if I remember correctly

aussiesmg
aussiesmg SuperDork
12/26/11 5:58 p.m.

I found this stock class rules list, unsure of age

The rules change slightly every year, but the basics have been unchanged for many years. Visit the SFR SCCA website's Solo II Stock Class Rules page for details.

Below is a pretty good summary of what you can change on your car and still remain legal in Stock Category. I've highlighted the ones that are truly important... most are rather unhelpful.

Option package conversions may be performed between specific vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations from within a particular model year. Such conversions must be totally complete and the resultant car must meet all other requirements of the rules.

Cosmetic changes that don't affect performance (paint, added gauges, trim, lights,etc.)

You may remove the spare tire and tools, and any removable hardtops, floor mats, or similar items considered removable (like Boxster windstops).

You can add a racing harness and roll bar or roll cage (so long as they're only bolted in).

Any tire approved by the Department of Transportation may be installed (but must have measurable tread). Note: Some SCCA Regions have "Street Tire" classes which exclude soft-rubber tires.

The wheels may be replaced with any wheel of the identical dimensions, except the offset may be changed by up to .25 inch. This just allows you to buy wheels that look different, but are the same size as whatever you got from Porsche (see above).

Shock absorbers and struts may be replaced by any others that fit and have exactly the same external dimensions. So they may not change the ride height, and "coilovers" are not allowed unless you weld the spring seat in place at exactly the stock position.

Springs, and strut bushings, must remain the same, but shock bushings may be replaced with any bushings.

Brake pads may be replaced with any that will fit without modifying the car.

Any brake, coolant, and hydraulic fluids and lubricants may be used.

The front sway bar may be changed. So even non-M030 and non-P38 cars can add the stiffer front sway bar that Porsche includes in those options, or whatever sway bar the aftermarket sells that will fit.

Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances.

Spark plugs may be replaced with any make.

The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced.

Any part of the exhaust system beyond (downstream from) the header/manifold or catalytic converter, if so equipped, may be substituted. Modifications of any type, including additions to or removal of, the catalytic converters, thermal reactors, or any other pollution control devices in the exhaust system are not allowed and the system must be operable.

Replacement catalytic converters must be OEM if the vehicle has not exceeded the 5-year/50,000 mile warranty period as mandated by the EPA. Converters must be of the same type and size and used in the same location as the original equipment converter(s). This does not allow for a high performance unit. If the vehicle has exceeded the 5 year/50,000 mile warranty period, replacement catalytic converters must be OEM-type.

Any oil filter may be used.

mw
mw HalfDork
12/26/11 8:53 p.m.

To stay in stock class you are essentially limited to shocks (stock springs), tires (hoosier dot R's allowed) and 1 sway bar. Virtually everything else must remain as from the factory. Stripping the interior will likely keep the car from ever being competitive in scca solo unless you plan to spend mega $$$ and do lots of fabricating to play in smf. Don't sell the interior. It will take too long to get it back to original when you get competitive and want to be legal for a class. There are lots of classes you can play in, but most require a full interior (or at least most of it).

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
12/26/11 9:30 p.m.
Curmudgeon wrote: Before laying a wrench on the car, you need to get the rule book out and go through it cover to cover.

Yep. Building a dedicated auto-x car starts with reading the rules, then you start thinking about what modifications to make. Going about it the other way invariably leads to frustration.

Stock rules allow for changing/modifying the front OR rear sway bar for 2012.

ST_ZX2
ST_ZX2 HalfDork
12/26/11 9:36 p.m.

2011 Rules: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/Documents/2011%20Tech/2011%20SCCA%20Solo%20Rules.pdf

2012 Proposals: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/Documents/2011%20Tech/2012%20Solo%20Rules%20Proposals%204-25-2011.pdf

Travis_K
Travis_K SuperDork
12/27/11 2:30 a.m.

I have seen too many gutted/trailered cars that are slower than stock class cars to agree that gutting the interior is a good idea. lol I think a year of stock class, then street prepared if you want to be able to mess with the suspension, then if you want to go any farther do it after that. Its too easy to end up with an uncompetitive car you have to trailer to every event. If you are going to do that, it would be better to build something more fun than a gutted honda.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey Dork
12/27/11 6:45 a.m.

You need an interior for SMF. You also need at least 300 whp.

I think the real "Fun" classes to run in these days are Street Touring.

I raced this all 2011 to win our regional title. 1991 GSR (with the 1.7) Full interior, 415 hp at the front wheels and plenty of Hankook C71 slicks. Also, massive turbo lag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5zEw7PxlSRw

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
12/27/11 7:12 a.m.
DaveEstey wrote: You need an interior for SMF. You also need at least 300 whp. I think the real "Fun" classes to run in these days are Street Touring. I raced this all 2011 to win our regional title. 1991 GSR (with the 1.7) Full interior, 415 hp at the front wheels and plenty of Hankook C71 slicks. Also, massive turbo lag. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5zEw7PxlSRw

What he said regarding the interior.

Although, i don't buy the power requirements. Dave didn't make near that in his Civic.

I won't be making that amount either, but i also can't measure the success of my car until it's dialed in and moving.

Woody
Woody SuperDork
12/27/11 7:21 a.m.

Beware: Dedicated cars have a tendency to own you.

robofunc
robofunc New Reader
12/27/11 10:42 a.m.

Thanks for the responses.

This classing decision is kind of tough--we'll be running events with at least three local clubs, so not really planning to be super competitive in any single club--at first, anyway. The idea started out as "let's build a light, fun Honda that we can autocross without having to constantly wrench." Initially we weren't interested in classes at all, just getting the car to a point where we can get seat time.

It seemed like a good idea to do everything we can to lighten the car, improve suspension and do a mild NA build on the engine (slight compression bump) to keep it reliable. Then drive it like crazy, classes be damned. Now I'm not entirely sure.

The car has held its own at events on crappy rubber with only coilovers and no other mods, so we figured a few more ponies, lots less weight and lots more tire should get us something we could use pretty much anywhere. That said, we're not interested in huge numbers and lag. Most courses around here are 2nd gear and relatively technical. By the time a big turbo spools, we'll be backing off for the next maneuver, so that's likely not a successful recipe for us.

Since the leather GSR interior is worth decent money, but a stripped interior is a no-no for most classes, maybe we sell the stock interior and replace it with a base-model cloth version which we could get for much less. Hmmm...

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
12/27/11 10:51 a.m.
robofunc wrote: Thanks for the responses. This classing decision is kind of tough--we'll be running events with at least three local clubs, so not really planning to be super competitive in any single club--at first, anyway. The idea started out as "let's build a light, fun Honda that we can autocross without having to constantly wrench." Initially we weren't interested in classes at all, just getting the car to a point where we can get seat time. It seemed like a good idea to do everything we can to lighten the car, improve suspension and do a mild NA build on the engine (slight compression bump) to keep it reliable. Then drive it like crazy, classes be damned. Now I'm not entirely sure. The car has held its own at events on crappy rubber with only coilovers and no other mods, so we figured a few more ponies, lots less weight and lots more tire should get us something we could use pretty much anywhere. That said, we're not interested in huge numbers and lag. Most courses around here are 2nd gear and relatively technical. By the time a big turbo spools, we'll be backing off for the next maneuver, so that's likely not a successful recipe for us. Since the leather GSR interior is worth decent money, but a stripped interior is a no-no for most classes, maybe we sell the stock interior and replace it with a base-model cloth version which we could get for much less. Hmmm...

I believe your interior idea only becomes legal in the SM classes. Unless you convert the entire car over to base model specs.

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
12/27/11 5:08 p.m.

I'm pretty sure a stripped interior puts you in a Prepared class. However, allowed engine mods in Prepared are somewhat limited/pricey.

Personally, if I had an older Integra and wanted a simple, reliable auto-x car that didn't need trailer-transport, I'd build it for STC (formerly ST). Chances are, it won't be competitive against uber-prepped Civics, but it should hold its own at the local level.

Travis_K
Travis_K SuperDork
12/27/11 5:15 p.m.

A base model interior would be mean street prepared right? If you are looking to be competitive it would be better to get a car you are comfortable leaving more stock that it sounds like is the case with this one.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
12/27/11 5:22 p.m.
Travis_K wrote: A base model interior would be mean street prepared right? If you are looking to be competitive it would be better to get a car you are comfortable leaving more stock that it sounds like is the case with this one.

Well.... depends... He could swap over to GSR cloth stuff as long as he swapped EVERYTHING.

Swapping to a lower level trim of car, picking and choosing bits would be SP, yes.

Honestly, i think the "easy button" for this car would be SP, depending on the driver's experience level. (Is this an FSP or DSP car?)

I don't really see it being competitive anywhere else if that's something you're worried about.

Cone_Junky
Cone_Junky HalfDork
12/27/11 5:44 p.m.

SM allows the removal of the rear seat, not much else.

I think DSP is a class that you could be competitive in for not too much money.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
12/27/11 6:34 p.m.
Cone_Junky wrote: SM allows the removal of the rear seat, not much else. I think DSP is a class that you could be competitive in for not too much money.

He can swap within integra models per the appendix in so.

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