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Woody
Woody MegaDork
10/24/12 8:30 p.m.
PHeller wrote: Go to your local Honda dealer and low-ball like crazy. They are bound to bite.

They still won't sell them for less than they paid for them.

Don't forget: We are not normal car buyers.

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed Dork
10/24/12 8:37 p.m.

Hmmmmmm, still don't care for the dual level dash.

wbjones
wbjones UltraDork
10/25/12 3:58 a.m.
Woody wrote:
PHeller wrote: Go to your local Honda dealer and low-ball like crazy. They are bound to bite.

They still won't sell them for less than they paid for them.

Don't forget: We are not normal car buyers.

when it comes time to pay inventory tax ... they'll sometimes come down below what they paid ... at least as far as the difference in the "loss" and the tax .. so they at least "break even"

Osterkraut
Osterkraut UberDork
10/25/12 9:49 a.m.
Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: It usually takes about 2 years for the word to spread.

Interesting, have any more examples to support your theory?

HiTempguy
HiTempguy SuperDork
10/25/12 10:33 a.m.
DirtyBird222 wrote: This new Fusion would have to be leaps and bounds better than the outgoing generation. I had a rental fusion for a week and it was the most mind numbingly boring car that I've ever driven. GM W-bodies were a blast to drive compared to those things.

Really? We have a 2011 Fusion Sport (awd, big v6, 6 speed, yadda yadda). I'm not a big fan, but it's a really good car for what it is and knocks down crazy mpg all the time.

The 7k rpm redline also puts a smile on my face when I HAMMER it. Of course, my coworkers are not car enthusiasts and think the car is going to die because I went above 4000rpm, but whatever.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
10/25/12 10:55 a.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: It usually takes about 2 years for the word to spread.

Interesting, have any more examples to support your theory?

Sales numbers. Look them up on every other flop of a car.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 SuperDork
10/25/12 11:27 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
DirtyBird222 wrote: This new Fusion would have to be leaps and bounds better than the outgoing generation. I had a rental fusion for a week and it was the most mind numbingly boring car that I've ever driven. GM W-bodies were a blast to drive compared to those things.

Really? We have a 2011 Fusion Sport (awd, big v6, 6 speed, yadda yadda). I'm not a big fan, but it's a really good car for what it is and knocks down crazy mpg all the time.

The 7k rpm redline also puts a smile on my face when I HAMMER it. Of course, my coworkers are not car enthusiasts and think the car is going to die because I went above 4000rpm, but whatever.

Yes, but I had a auto 4 cylinder. I had a Hyundai Accent that had horrible out of balance wheels that made the car shake like crazy at 40mph that was way more exciting than that fusion.

Osterkraut
Osterkraut UberDork
10/25/12 11:39 a.m.
Javelin wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
Javelin wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: It usually takes about 2 years for the word to spread.

Interesting, have any more examples to support your theory?

Sales numbers. Look them up on every other flop of a car.

Got any off the top of your head? I went immediately to the Acura TL, but looking at the numbers the much-maligned hawk-beak actually stabilized a large drop in numbers, and the 2012 numbers aren't out yet. The GTO's change occurred after just a year, You could make an argument for the Mazda3's quick facelift, but again the sales had a large drop pre-smiley face, and a big jump in the updated 2012 sales, but those numbers are hugely muddled by Mazda adding the SkyActiv along with the refresh. The STi/I's update only took a year, as mentioned.

What am I missing, granted I'm not in the know about "flops that sold well after a refresh" cars.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
10/25/12 11:43 a.m.

In reply to Osterkraut:

I dunno man, don't you read any car mags besides GRM? I see it in articles all the time in the letter&letter rags, Autoblog, etc. Try bigger flops: Acura ZDX, Honda CrossTour, Edsel Pacer...

Osterkraut
Osterkraut UberDork
10/25/12 11:53 a.m.
Javelin wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: I dunno man, don't you read any car mags besides GRM? I see it in articles all the time in the letter&letter rags, Autoblog, etc. Try bigger flops: Acura ZDX, Honda CrossTour, Edsel Pacer...

ZDX: huge sales flop (like, holy E36 M3 79 cars sold in 2009?), but I don't see how your "takes two years for a refresh to come" comment comes into effect as the 2013 will be the last. CrossTour: bad sales, no redesign either, not being cancelled. Apparently the Pacer only lasted a year.

You just can't make claims like "it takes about two years" without one decent example, man! If anything, you would be closer with saying one model year* for truly terrible cars, look at the immediate change with the Aztek(model years 2001 vs 2002), or even, hell, the Civic (2012 vs 2013)!

*Some argument could be made saying they were working a redesign even before launch, though things like this show that it was post launch for the Civic, at least.

Enyar
Enyar Reader
10/25/12 1:55 p.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
DirtyBird222 wrote: This new Fusion would have to be leaps and bounds better than the outgoing generation. I had a rental fusion for a week and it was the most mind numbingly boring car that I've ever driven. GM W-bodies were a blast to drive compared to those things. What is this new Civic you speak of? The current 2012 model ?

Really? We have a 2011 Fusion Sport (awd, big v6, 6 speed, yadda yadda). I'm not a big fan, but it's a really good car for what it is and knocks down crazy mpg all the time.

The 7k rpm redline also puts a smile on my face when I HAMMER it. Of course, my coworkers are not car enthusiasts and think the car is going to die because I went above 4000rpm, but whatever.

What kind of MPGs we talking here?

HiTempguy
HiTempguy SuperDork
10/25/12 2:20 p.m.

Under 10.0L/100kms... uh, so basically I haven't saw it drop below 25usmpg in mixed use. Pretty good, considering it's awd, weighs close to 4000 pounds, and makes 280hp and is comfy to drive while handling nicely.

If someone said I had to buy an automatic sedan, this would possibly be it.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltraDork
10/25/12 3:05 p.m.
Eurobeaner wrote: Civics suck these days. Fit is slow. S2k is gone. No more fun across the board. That said. I do love my fit. Closest thing to a 95 civic that is brand new that you can buy. Only thing lacking is aftermarket support and power. Haha.

yeah... but someone forgot to tell them it's 2012 now and the world has changed. cars make more power, get better economy, have better transmissions and don't have to be loud as berkeley anymore.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltraDork
10/25/12 3:07 p.m.
Javelin wrote: In reply to Osterkraut: I dunno man, don't you read any car mags besides GRM? I see it in articles all the time in the letter&letter rags, Autoblog, etc. Try bigger flops: Acura ZDX, Honda CrossTour, Edsel Pacer...

The ZDX was never meant to be a high volume seller. I think that is what many people don't realize. It was meant from the beginning to be a low volume, niche-market vehicle. They targeted this specific vehicle to mid-fifties empty nesters, dual income about to retire. Big enough to carry 4 if they have to, but is meant for the two of them.

frenchy
frenchy New Reader
10/25/12 6:41 p.m.

Honda has been dead to me ever since I bout a '01 civic. The damn thing needed a new manual transmission at 43K miles. Thank god I bought it CPO and it was covered under warranty. This was not an uncommon problem on these cars auto or manual. They were basically huge pieces of E36 M3 as far as I am concerned.

It also had a bunch of other stupid little problems. My old CRX felt better put together even though it had 220K on the original engine and trans when I got rid of it.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof UberDork
10/25/12 7:54 p.m.

This is nothing new for Honda. They've been building mediocre bikes forever, and been very successful at it.

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