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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Did my first Autox today, need advice, enabling not necessary

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April 10, 2011 1:09 a.m. Rufledt HalfDork

I went to the Renegade Miata club's autox school today, and had a great time. Autox is awesome. I'm going back. No need to convince me. I already paid my membership fee. I used my bone stock RX8, and it's going to stay that way because, well, I'm not made of money. Also it's way more capable than I can drive it.

What I learned I do need to buy:
-A hat with a brim
-Sunglasses (why don't I have any already?)
-Sunscreen that doesn't burn my eyes while trying to watch cones -A better tire pressure gauge (mine only displays in rounded-to-the-nearest-psi-ish, if it feels like it at all)
-A helmet
-Painters tape or something for numbers that doesn't blend in with my blue car
-Driving gloves (my hands get sweaty, and the wheel got slippery)

Did I miss anything? Any words of advice for a noob? I used the instructors they had as much as I could and they extremely helpful. I also found out that I can't make the next 2 events for scheduling conflicts (don't tell my Fiance I called our wedding a "schedule conflict" ) but luckily a couple people told me about other clubs in the area where I could potentially find an event every weekend. I also learned (though experience this time) that bathroom breaks should be taken advantage of before standing and watching cars drive by hitting cones for an hour, especially after chugging a liter of Mt. Dew, also that it's hard to run a quarter mile to a porta-john with a full bladder.
April 10, 2011 1:34 a.m. cxhb HalfDork

Welcome to the addiction. I always pack some food/drinks, might want to add that.
April 10, 2011 1:37 a.m. Rufledt HalfDork

Ah yes good idea. I did pack some food, but it sucked. what kind of food stays decent in a cooler?
April 10, 2011 2:02 a.m. peter Reader

Start with water instead of Mt. Dew, and lots of it. Get an instructor to ride with you, and try different instructors. Go for magnetic numbers instead of tape. Easier, cleaner, more visible.

Honestly, even though you want to keep the RX-8 stock, get ready to invest in at least tires. If you're on all-seasons, they're going to suck to learn on and will get chewed up in no time. At least go to uber-performance summer tires when your current set gets eaten up.

Really, the key is to get seat time any way you can. I know that's a drag, but...
April 10, 2011 5:52 a.m. mtn SuperDork

Get some decent tires. Starspecs, RE-11's, RA1's, etc. After you have decent tires, get really good with the car in stock OEM form before you even think about playing with it.

For gloves, I use batting gloves or leather work gloves that are unlined.

If you are serious about it, forget the painters tape. Get some magnetic numbers.

I like BullFrog sun screen. Expensive, but it is the most reliable from what I've found (and I've spent every summer day outside for the past 8 years in my pale pasty skin)

Get a small cooler--PB&J's are your best bet for keeping food. Otherwise just sandwiches, bonus points if you can keep it apart and put it together there.

I remember a certain magazine doing a comparison on tire pressure gauges. I wish I could remember what magazine.

Ask for more experienced drivers to ride along with you and give you tips. Ask to ride along with more experienced drivers.

Thats all I have now
April 10, 2011 6:10 a.m. szeis4cookie New Reader

mtn wrote:

Get a small cooler--PB&J's are your best bet for keeping food. Otherwise just sandwiches, bonus points if you can keep it apart and put it together there.

This is going to sound dumb, but those Smuckers Uncrustable frozen PBJ sandwiches are perfect autocross food. They even help keep your drinks cool in your cooler.
April 10, 2011 7:41 a.m. redrabbit New Reader

Water. Snack crackers. Crasins. Tuna in a envelope(fork). I avoid any thing that might go right thru. Breakfast on the fly, BK coffee and french toast sticks. I am diebetic so I can crash energy wise. Also my numbers came from Jo-Ann Fabric or Pat Catans for the magnetic backing (8 1/2 x 11 ?) and #'s from Home Depot. Folding chairs and camera. Get a ride with someone who is fast.
April 10, 2011 8:08 a.m. sachilles Dork

Sounds like you have your head on straight. 50% of newbie's think they immediately need to modify their car after their first event. I think you should just kill off the all-season tires, don't get new ones until you need them. Crappy tires teaches you how to be smooth. Then you'll fully appreciate a good ST tire when you get them. Smooth is fast.
April 10, 2011 8:43 a.m. car39 Reader

My favorite pressure gauge came from wally world. It's as acurate as my mega buck one, and comes as a pull trigger attachement with a postive lock on the schrader valve. I modifed my air tank to take a removeable hose, and there I am. I think it was all of $14 You can write your number on a square of magnetic material with an erasable marker. Or try this: http://www.cartct.com/autocross.shtml scroll down about 2/3 of the page and click on the link for C.A.R.T. Car number. you can print off numbers using Word
April 10, 2011 8:47 a.m. wbjones SuperDork

I'm going to go against the general advice you've gotten so far... the "crappy" AS tires you've probably got are exactly what you need for the first yr at least..

with the high UTQG they'll last fine (assuming you pump them up a lot... (talk to the better drivers and get their opinion on how high) ... the lack of grip will teach you to actually drive your car, not rely on the tire grip to get you around the course

after a season of no grip then move on to some ST type tires (almost as grippy as the lesser R-comps) something like the RE 11, R1R, XS, etc....

next you'll need to find the money for a performance set of shocks ( $$$$) but so very worth it...

if all you're going to do is a-x for a while, a motorcycle shop is a great place to find an inexpensive helmet (not a DOT... either M or SA rated)

as far as things to take with you... H2O (lots of it), much better than the sports drinks... PB&J as mentioned... I prefer fruit and nuts (plenty of energy and easy to keep in a cooler) wide brim hat, (don't like to mention the R word but) get some good rain gear... nothing is more uncomfortable as having to work the course in a driving rainstorm in shorts and a T shirt.... bring a folding chair

the best bang for your buck is get as much seat time as you can.. and before you teach yourself too many "bad" habits, sign up for some a-x driving schools, both local (with the different clubs in your area) and the professional level schools (http://www.evoschool.com/) is a good place (though not the only example) to start

good luck, welcome to the addiction.....

edit: looks like I a post or two late as usual... sachilles already beat me to some of what I had to say.
April 10, 2011 9:09 a.m. WilberM3 HalfDork

did you go to Deven's AFB? I missed most of the first month signups but i want to get to a miata event at some point.

if you plan on doing a lot a magnetic door number couldnt hurt either, but tape is easy enough. i keep meaning to get a magnetic panel but still use tape.
comfortable shoes=absolute must standing around all day. my driving shoes are awesome in car but a little unsupportive for watching cones.
I'd recommend a small tarp to cover your stuff in case of rain too.
April 10, 2011 9:16 a.m. JoeyM SuperDork

wbjones wrote:

the "crappy" AS tires you've probably got are exactly what you need for the first yr at least...the lack of grip will teach you to actually drive your car, not rely on the tire grip to get you around the course

+1 Nothing could be more true

wbjones wrote: if all you're going to do is a-x for a while, a motorcycle shop is a great place to find an inexpensive helmet (not a DOT... either M or SA rated)

if autocross is all you're doing, an M rated helmet is probably fine. Be aware that any sport requiring fireproof underwear won't let you play with an M-rated helmet.
April 10, 2011 10:43 a.m. wbjones SuperDork

track days (PDX, HPDE... whatever the organization calls their version ) for the most part allow M rated ... if you are on your way to a comp license of any kind (even TT / hill-climb) you'll need SA rated (maybe even closed face )
April 10, 2011 4:16 p.m. Rufledt HalfDork

I'll probobly stick with autox for now, but I may want to do TT in the future. I'll probobly try to invest in a SA rated helmet then. Might as well not have to buy 2 helmets. I'll look into magnetic numbers, too. If I run with other groups, though, would I have different numbers? If so maybe i'll stick with tape for now. I do need a folding chair, too... and rain gear... I'll make a revised list after this thread dies.

As for the car, my RX8 is an R3, so it already comes with some kind of summer performance tires and Bilstein shocks. I assume the tires aren't the best for autox, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it/when these start wearing out. Are there any other groups in the Boston area I should check out other than the Miata one?
April 10, 2011 4:35 p.m. sachilles Dork

When buying gear like rain coats, chairs and the like, avoid the color red.
April 10, 2011 5:03 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

I print out my numbers and tape the number to the car. Looks better to me. Sometimes I use a yellow paper but usually normal white copy paper.

I have a 2" wide roll of blue painters tape on a packing tape dispenser. You would not believe how popular that piece of equipment is.

I freeze 4 water bottles out of the dozen I take in the cooler as "ice, I keep all the other water in the fridge the night prior.

I concur with the PB&J, I also suggest taking a trip down to the local butcher and picking up some good jerkey. Beef, turkey, venison... anything to keep the energy level up.

Buy a race tote that fits in your car. Use it to put your stuff in at the paddock. Do not stuff it full before putting your floor mats and extra E36 M3 in it. Mine is perfectly full when I am staging.

I don't use a tent yet but I will be purchasing one as soon as I have the space.
April 10, 2011 5:11 p.m. WilberM3 HalfDork

BMWCCA boston runs a really good autocross at Devens, apparently a lot of the guys from miata club attend both, but you have to be a bmwcca member before you can register for events. just be warned, if you try to sign up its usually full about 12 hours after registration opens up at midnight.
April 10, 2011 6:44 p.m. DaveEstey HalfDork

We're running an AutoX at NHMS Sunday, come and play.

www.sccnh.org
April 10, 2011 6:58 p.m. JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director

A second set of wheels and tires is a good place to start. In the long run, it's worth the investment as you won't be grinding up your street tires, and as your skills/interest level increases, you can alter your autoX tire selection. I'm sure there's plenty of OEM takeoff RX8 wheels out there for reasonable money.

Aside from that, you'll figure out the stuff you need for a day in the sun, or rain, after a few events. The other good advice is to make friends. The people that get it will welcome a noob,as they realize that the only way this sport survives is through nurturing the people that help it grow. Never be afraid to walk up to someone as say "Hi, I'm new here, and I have a question."

Welcome aboard.

jg
April 10, 2011 8:21 p.m. rwdsport New Reader

Nice car, I had the opportunity to drive one of those in a challenge against the owner. That was on r888 mind you. I completely agree that you should drive on the tires that came with the car, which are already a decent tire. Crappy tires teach great driving, you have to be silky smooth in them or you will be slow.

For the driving:

Look ahead, then look ahead some more, then when you think your are going to damage your spinal cord, look ahead some more. Entering a long sweeper I am looking at the exit already...

Listen to the car! Window's down, feel the feedback at the steering. Your goal is to maintain a high average speed. If you dive into a corner and the car is not turning fast enough, lower the speed, unwind the wheel a little (until the shudder of the front tires goes away, common newbie error is to turn the steering more).

Get rides with the fast guys, ask them to come for rides and give feedback. Work on the line first, the speed will come after.

GRM had a great autox school issue late last year I think, it had some 10 tips that I found to be great advice.

Good luck my friend, you have just began the ride down a very, very slippery slope.
April 10, 2011 8:39 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

Welcome to the madness!

Agree about sticking with the stock tires for right now. Like jg says, start looking for another set of takeoff rims and get a set of stickier rubber for those for NEXT season. FWIW: I have heard good things about Star Specs but my direct experience with the Azenis RT615 makes me like 'em a bunch. RX8's don't have a whole heap of trunk space so you need to consider just how you will get the race rubber to the venue. Hint: A Tire Tail is not hard to build.

Definitely ditch the Mountain Dew etc for hot days, that stuff makes you pee like crazy and has so much sugar you get cottonmouth. Good ol' H2O is your best friend in the sun. Remember to eat something, the PB&J suggestion is excellent. If you are like me, the 1PM 'crash' can be a real problem so keep track of what the 'machine' needs. Eat a little at a time pretty steadily and you should be OK.

If you decide to buy a shelter, get a pop up rather than a tent you have to assemble, the $99 Wal Mart one works just fine. If you watch them, you can catch them on sale for $79. Beware: there is a straight leg and angle leg version and the angle leg one sucks.

About driving advice; you have come to the wrong guy.
April 10, 2011 8:57 p.m. Josh Dork

There's also New England Region SCCA (ner.org).

The solution to the number dilemma is that if you make a few extra numbers (let's say a 1, a 3 that can be turned into an 8, and a 9 that can be turned upside down into a 6 for each side), you are pretty much guaranteed to have something that will be available with whatever club you run with. Speaking as a T&S worker with a few different clubs, if you have a blue car don't you dare show up with painter's tape again! :)
April 10, 2011 8:59 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

When I first started autocrossing in the mid '90's the bible at the time was the VHS tape titled, "Autocrossing with Dick Turner" The wisdom from the mid '80's really has not changed. Through the magic of youtube this now out of print video can be viewed in multiple segments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhTUf9iaG4

Everything I would recommend can be found within.

Edit: worthy of it's own thread.
April 10, 2011 9:02 p.m. wlkelley3 Dork

Congrats on the addiction. What has been suggested is very good. Magnetic sheets aren't expensive and make your own numbers and class letters. A good cooler filled with iced down water and sports drinks is my personal choice. I also hit Subway the night before and get a sub. A foot-long to share with someone that didn't bring anything. I put it in a ziplock bag to keep it from getting wet in the ice cooler. A cold sub tastes mighty good in the middle of a hot day. This season just stay with whatever tires you have and concentrate on technique, unlearn bad habits. When the tires wear out get a set of sticky street tires, the type the ST guys use. Lots of choices, pick one and when those wear out try a different kind till you find one that works for you. Rims for RX8 ain't cheap but keep your eyes and ears open and you might be able to score a set of stock rims that someone replaced with a fancy set. I got my extra set from someone I know at a tire shop. Someone had a set of fancy rims installed on their RX8 and left the old ones at the shop. Hence I scored and extra set of stock RX8 rims for free. Listen and watch what the fast guys use and when you can follow their tricks. Don't be embarassed about spinning, just think how much fun it was and what you did wrong that caused it and try it again. A good 12v compressor and a decent gage does the job handling tire pressures, not fancy but gets the job done. Good luck and most important - HAVE FUN!!
April 11, 2011 2:41 a.m. Rufledt HalfDork

sachilles wrote:

When buying gear like rain coats, chairs and the like, avoid the color red.

Not to be confused with a red flag, right?

John Brown wrote:

concur with the PB&J, I also suggest taking a trip down to the local butcher and picking up some good jerkey. Beef, turkey, venison... anything to keep the energy level up.

Buy a race tote that fits in your car. Use it to put your stuff in at the paddock. Do not stuff it full before putting your floor mats and extra E36 M3 in it. Mine is perfectly full when I am staging.

I will take every excuse I can find to get some jerky. As for a tote, I think I could get away with 2 smaller ones (the trunk opening on the RX8 isn't as big as stuff that can fit in the trunk) and still take a set of tires. I found I can get a whole set in the back seats (thank you mazda for the rear doors), but i have a wheel question: I read somewhere that stock class allows aftermarket wheels, but they must be the same size as stock. Does that mean I can run OEM RX8 wheels from non-R3's at 18x8 or since I have an R3 do I have to run 19x8 wheels?

WilberM3 wrote:

BMWCCA boston runs a really good autocross at Devens, apparently a lot of the guys from miata club attend both, but you have to be a bmwcca member before you can register for events. just be warned, if you try to sign up its usually full about 12 hours after registration opens up at midnight.

How do I go about signing up for that? Should I just find their website?

rwdsport wrote:

Look ahead, then look ahead some more, then when you think your are going to damage your spinal cord, look ahead some more. Entering a long sweeper I am looking at the exit already...

Listen to the car! Window's down, feel the feedback at the steering. Your goal is to maintain a high average speed. If you dive into a corner and the car is not turning fast enough, lower the speed, unwind the wheel a little (until the shudder of the front tires goes away, common newbie error is to turn the steering more).

Get rides with the fast guys, ask them to come for rides and give feedback. Work on the line first, the speed will come after.

GRM had a great autox school issue late last year I think, it had some 10 tips that I found to be great advice.

thanks for the advice! I know I sucked especially at the looking ahead thing- I had corners sneak up on me a couple times every run.

Do you remember which issue? I think I have all of them here on my bookshelf. I'll look.

jrw1621 wrote:

Through the magic of youtube this now out of print video can be viewed in multiple segments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhTUf9iaG4

Thankee sir

wlkelley3 wrote:

A good cooler filled with iced down water and sports drinks is my personal choice. I also hit Subway the night before and get a sub. A foot-long to share with someone that didn't bring anything. I put it in a ziplock bag to keep it from getting wet in the ice cooler. A cold sub tastes mighty good in the middle of a hot day. This season just stay with whatever tires you have and concentrate on technique, unlearn bad habits. When the tires wear out get a set of sticky street tires, the type the ST guys use. HAVE FUN!!

I can usually find a set of RX8 wheels for sale (some mighty cheap with curb rash) but if I have to run the same size (19x8) as R3 wheels I'd have to shell out serious bucks to get another set of wheels and tires...

DaveEstey wrote:

We're running an AutoX at NHMS Sunday, come and play.

www.sccnh.org

unfortunately I'm generally busy on sundays, but I see next month you guys have an autox school. The renegade school was great, but I want as much instruction as I can get to steepen my learning curve. I'll have to check it out.

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