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  Dec. 1, 2011 2:20 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  I LOOOOOVVVE my wife's Scion xB. The ONLY complaint I have is the gearing. Its a 5 speed manual, and to overcome the small displacement they used a 4.27:1 final drive. Its geared very nicely with good spreads except OD. It whines at about 4000 rpm at 70 mph. It just needs oooone more gear. Since its getting time for a clutch soon...

  Any six speeds with a slightly taller OD? I could find a wider ratio 5 speed, but then that ruins the nicely spaced ratios. I could change the final drive, but then I sacrifice the low gear. The best solution I can think of is to add one more gear.

  Any ideas?

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  Dec. 1, 2011 2:41 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  CVT's seem to get good reviews.

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  Dec. 1, 2011 3:09 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

  If that's the same 5 speed I have on Dr.Linda's Europa (xA, 2003, I think), it's a C50, used in Rollas and MR2s. There was a C60 6 speed used behind blacktop 4AG's, but the final drive was the same as the 5 speed. I kinda wish I had an extra gear for the 20v Rolla as well, but if it was the same gearing as 5th in the C52 I have, what's the point? Anyway, you might look at other 90's to early 00's 4a Rolla and 7A Celicas and see if any of them have gearing you want. They may have a transmission that could work. I would not be surprised if you had to use your existing bell housing.

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  Dec. 1, 2011 3:43 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  jrw1621 wrote:

  CVT's seem to get good reviews.

  After running transmission shops for 8 years, I couldn't disagree more... politely

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  Dec. 1, 2011 3:48 p.m. integraguy SuperDork

  Toyota, the last company to put a 4 speed auto in it's cars, when pretty much every other car maker has moved on to at least 5 spped autos...?

  Too bad a Celica 6 speed transmission won't fit there...or would it?

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  Dec. 1, 2011 3:50 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Dr. Hess wrote:

  If that's the same 5 speed I have on Dr.Linda's Europa (xA, 2003, I think), it's a C50, used in Rollas and MR2s. There was a C60 6 speed used behind blacktop 4AG's, but the final drive was the same as the 5 speed. I kinda wish I had an extra gear for the 20v Rolla as well, but if it was the same gearing as 5th in the C52 I have, what's the point?

  If the gear spread is the same on the 5s and 6s, then there is no point, you're right. If there is one more higher gear, then the 4.27 is perfect. If the 6s have one lower gear, then I can go with a higher final drive.

  Its just a matter of mixing and matching the right ratios in the tranny with the right final drive.

  Off to research...

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  Dec. 1, 2011 3:51 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  jrw1621 wrote:

  CVT's seem to get good reviews.

  I forgot to use the all important sarcasm font.
  My comment was actually a reference to this other thread:
  http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/honda-to-ditch-conventional-automatics/...
  

  I have owned a CVT in my wife's old car and I do not like.

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  Dec. 1, 2011 4:06 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  integraguy wrote:

  Too bad a Celica 6 speed transmission won't fit there...or would it?

  It might, but I was looking at the ratios... same basic spread, only comes in 4.59:1 final drive. The 6th is a bit higher, but the net result would only be a 200 RPM drop on the highway.

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  Dec. 1, 2011 4:32 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  What about just a taller 5th gear in the current stack. 1-4 = close ratio, good FD, 5th = big RPM drop. Might have to be OK with a 4th gear downshift if it won't pull hills that way, but it's an option.

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  Dec. 1, 2011 4:51 p.m. zipty842 Reader

  bellhousings can be swapped between all of the c series transaxles. Im doing this right now for my MR2.http://www.mk1point5.com/6speed.htm

  A taller 5th is available in the late Tercel

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  Dec. 1, 2011 11:01 p.m. Nitroracer SuperDork

  This might help if that transmission is related to the old paseo/tercel manual gear boxes.

  http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/regearing-tranny-toyota-tercel-952.html

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  Dec. 1, 2011 11:58 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  jrw1621 wrote:

  jrw1621 wrote:

  CVT's seem to get good reviews.

  I forgot to use the all important sarcasm font.
  My comment was actually a reference to this other thread:
  http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/honda-to-ditch-conventional-automatics/...
  

  I have owned a CVT in my wife's old car and I do not like.

  Ah... gotcha

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  Dec. 2, 2011 12:01 a.m. curtis73 Dork

  zipty842 wrote:

  bellhousings can be swapped between all of the c series transaxles. Im doing this right now for my MR2.http://www.mk1point5.com/6speed.htm

  A taller 5th is available in the late Tercel

  Forgive me... I'm a hotrodder. What about axle shafts?

  I can swap a TH350 for a 4L60 and know how much to cut the driveshaft, but FWD is new to me.

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  Dec. 2, 2011 12:05 a.m. curtis73 Dork

  zipty842 wrote:

  bellhousings can be swapped between all of the c series transaxles. Im doing this right now for my MR2.http://www.mk1point5.com/6speed.htm

  A taller 5th is available in the late Tercel

  Good stuff, thanks

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  Dec. 2, 2011 2:15 a.m. EvanR Reader

  I have the same car and feel the same way. The xB started as the Toyota bB in Japan, and wasn't much modified for the US. Fact is, speed limits over 100km/h are rare an Japan, and that's how the car is geared.

  I've searched every forum there is and could not find or verify any completed swaps of either transmissions or differential gears.

  I've just determined to live with it. You might consider more sound insulation...

  Funny thing about my xB is it is the only car I've ever owned that gets worse mileage on the highway than in the city. I can get a consistent 35 mpg around town (a/c off) but I'm lucky to get 32 on the highway!

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  Dec. 2, 2011 12:23 p.m. zipty842 Reader

  curtis73 wrote:

  zipty842 wrote:

  bellhousings can be swapped between all of the c series transaxles. Im doing this right now for my MR2.http://www.mk1point5.com/6speed.htm

  A taller 5th is available in the late Tercel

  Forgive me... I'm a hotrodder. What about axle shafts?

  I can swap a TH350 for a 4L60 and know how much to cut the driveshaft, but FWD is new to me.

  The scion axles should slide right in. on my 86 mr2, i have to use 91-95 N/A axles. but I under stand it that the later versions of the C all have the same larger carrier and spider gears.

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  Dec. 2, 2011 4:49 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Ok, thanks.

  It looks like the best direct swap is the C60, but it only provides a very small RPM drop over what I have; higher 6th but lower final.

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  Dec. 2, 2011 11:09 p.m. zipty842 Reader

  The one thing to look for is which side of the transmission the shift linkage is on. on the older FWD stuff, it was on the back side, facing the firewall. The MR2 has it on the front side, same as the late Celica. I do not know if the Corolla stuff was the same or not. Oddly, the elise has the linkage on the back side. I have not checked yet to see if the end housing bolt pattern is the same for all transmissions, but if it is then the center sections should be swappable as well, making it just a matter of swapping the guts and end housing into your case.

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  Dec. 2, 2011 11:55 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Zipty... I noticed that the sixth gear is an "add on" to the end. Does that gear cluster use any other internal gears, or is it a standalone addition?

  Might be a little excessive work to add a top gear that only drops RPM 8% but at least worth a look.

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  Dec. 3, 2011 1:36 a.m. zipty842 Reader

  the shafts are different from the 5 speed shafts to accomodate the extra gear and bearings. the only other addition is an extra shift shaft for reverse.

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  Dec. 3, 2011 1:08 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Got it. I'll research some parts compatibility and maybe I can mix and match differentials to get the final drive I want.

  thanks

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