Hey there.
Parents need a new car. Just totalled a 96 dodge caravan which they liked quite a bit.
Are the newer ones say 2004-2007 worth having? Any major problems? Any engine or trans options or years to avoid?
Any competitors to recommend? It seems like the dodge's depreciate more than others.
Reliability and low repair bills are main priority.
Thanks Neil
We have a 2000 Mazda MPV that now has 270,000 km, is worked hard as a DD, and just keeps going. Somebody on here calls the MPV "the Cadillac of minivans," and he has a point. I rode in a recent-model Odyssey recently, and it was noticeably less quiet inside than our beat-up Mazda. Roll-down windows in the sliding doors are great, and the narrower footprint makes city driving/parking easier. We put Nokian WR tires on it, and snow isn't an issue. I do notice that the A/C starts to lose the battle against really hot and humid weather (like August in Toronto when it's 35 degrees C BEFORE they figure out the Humidex), but that could be unique to our car – I've never had it checked out. The engines are Ford Duratecs in disguise, so a few problems are out there but well known. Gas mileage on our 2.5 L pushing a box through the air isn't great. If I had it to do over again, I'd take the advice of another guy on here and put a trans cooler on it the day I bought it; our trans is starting to get tired. That's about it.
Given the basic Caravan hasn't changed ever since 97, they are the same until the body change in 08.
Only model to stay away from is the 2.4 fleet vehicle. They all still eat swaybar endlinks and bushings. You will have to watch out for a PS leak at the rack. The parts store racks are a bigger POS then the one leaking, get the factory rack, new outer tierods are included. If the PS pump is making noise, put a new reservoir on it before even thinking about replacing the pump. Even though overall the transmissions are given "poor" ratings by everyone from past experience, but they are fairly bulletproof. Make sure you don't have any leaks on the motor externally, usually the head gaskets are leaking at the corners. The water pump gasket LOVES to leak and it's a PITA to change. If you have an EGR code, replace the valve, clear the code and drive away. If someone complains the "lifters are ticking" either you have a POFS Fram on it for a filter or one or more con rod bearings have been destroyed. Just take the pan off, remove the rod cap, push the piston up, polish the journal with some 400 grit, clean, and reassemble with a new bearing. Aluminum bearings FTW!
I know I am forgetting something since it was either a Caravan, usually for the above reasons, or a Ram truck needing a blend door in my bay for 2 yrs working in the dealership.
Brian
GRM once had a Caravan in it's fleet....it had a somewhat ignominous end. It was traded for an Odyssey. However, considering the trans. problems 2nd gen. Odyssey's had...that may have been "out of the frying pan, and into the fire".
Anymore, I tell folks it's not so important how much you pay/what kind of deal you got, so much as can you trust you dealer to stand behind your vehicle, ESPECIALLY DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD.
FWIW, Chrysler dealers in my area are "circling the drain" in that they change hands every 3 or 4 years. No other brand seems to have this problem.
Our 2005 (not sure what other years) has the Stow and Go. That worth the price of admission.
My parent's '09 has quite a few niggling problems for a vehicle driven only half the year by a retiree. Dad takes exceptional care of his vehicles too. Also I drove them to dinner in it tonight, and It drives like a wet noodle made of turds. Find a nice used MPV and you're much better off.
I daily drive a '97 with a 2.4 that refuses to die. 193xxx on the odo and he still keeps ticking.
My wife has a '05 Town and Country that has been quite good to us also. We bought it used and the only thing besides the regular maintenance stuff it has needed is a waterpump (it still worked but the bearing was starting to make some noise). As Boost said the stow and go seats are quite good. I fit half a Miata in the back of it once. And by half I literally mean half - cut right behind the seats back. It has a 3.8 that sees 25 mpg average and has good power to pass and tow. The power sliding doors and tailgate are convenient too. Interior fit and finish is on par with anything else in that price range, though ours is pretty loaded with all the goodies (DVD, changer and what-not).
I agree that they seem to depreciate quicker than others which is why we bought a used one. We bought ours 2 years ago for $9500. Last time I checked KBB listed it at $7000 to $8500 for trade in. I tend not to worry to much about depreciation after I buy a vehicle because we tend to drive what we have into the ground before buying another car (hence why I still drive my other one). If you're looking used than taking advantage of the low prices makes it a win.
+1 on 3.5L and SnG
I'll try to be objective here..
Caravans are definitely worth what you can get them for, which is FAR cheaper than a nice sienna or odyssey.
Ranger50 gave an excellent post.
Id like to reinforce the point that despite its reputation, the 604/41te is a great transmission in my opinion as a multiple repeat owner and in my experience as a transmission rebuilder. If its had a cooler on it most of its life, you've pretty much got no worries. If it hasnt, consider yourself in the same boat as MOST OTHER transmissions without coolers. No worse..
The 3.3/3.8 engines are extremely reliable! I also would avoid the 2.4 variety but the 3.3/3.8 hooked to a 604 and taken care of with basic maintenance is a bulletproof combo.
I had an '01 for a while with a 3.3 and the four speed, from 170k to about 230k miles. It had it's third transmission rebuild right before I got it, I sold it when it needed another. I also put a in window regulator and the rear hatch never worked aside form opening it with the key. And it had crunchy front end bushings the whole time. Aside from that, it was dead reliable.
My mom has bought several town and countries new and kept them to about 100k miles. All fairly loaded with the big motor. Never had any real problems except the one she has now (an '03 I think) has temperamental power doors.
My sister had one and didn't like it. She went and got the Honda. Her Dodge was rusting after the fifth Chicago winter.
I had a Venture minivan for work and kinda liked it. I am waiting for a real "sports car" minvan.
, from 170k to about 230k miles. It had it's third transmission rebuild right before I got it, I sold it when it needed another
Hmm, so 4th tranny and how many transmission coolers?
If it was built right it shouldnt fail that often. Unless it had the same dirty, half-clogged radiator cooler and no external through all those builds.
My highest mileage on original 604s ive owned, in descending order: 210k (rebuilt because of dry seals, no hard part failure, sold at 240k) 180k (first year 89 tranny, slipping when sold) 160k (still going) 120k (burnt up 4th gear going 130mph) 115k (still going)
Thanks for the input. Doesn't sound like too much variation over the model years in question.
Is there a certain trim level that equates to the bigger engine? Pretty much all I see have the 3.3.
Also, any thoughts on the value of trying to get the remainder of a 7/70 warranty? Might be a trick with that program stopping in 2006 and only available to the 1st or 2nd owner.
Lastly, any other brands that would be reliable and cheap to buy? Hyundai Entourage (or whatver they call it)? I think they need something with under 70-80k miles.
Nice to see other folks praising the Mazda MPV. I bought mine new in '05 and it's been flawless through 65,000 miles.
I had Dodge Caravans for loaners from the dealer when they did my free oil changes early on, and I was always very glad to get my MPV back.
Since i dont have the money/motivation quotient for a Mazda5, ive been wanting to try an MPV. Sure seems like a sweet vehicle.
I almost got my mom into one on her last car purchase, but i ended up finding her a nice s80 instead.
I really like our 2001 3.3L Auto Grand Caravan Sport. That being said a piano was probably just dropped on it from the Space Station.
i hate the 604 transmission and would never touch another one as long as i live. if it were free i'd drive it to the scrap yard.
blow up, rebuild, blow up again, blow up some more. both that and the 3 speed they used with the 3.0 were under-engineered for a minivan. if you've ever had one apart you would be appalled at the size of certain things relative to the size of the vehicle they are attempting to move. when i can walk into a trans shop with a grenaded planetary assembly in my hand in pieces and he says "oh another caravan i've got a pile of those in the back" without telling him anything - you have a problem.
We have an 02 at work as a delivery vehicle. It had 123,000 to start, it's up over 160,000 about a year later. Tires and brakes only so far. Pretty impressive considering most of our vehicles look like they've been pushed off a cliff after the first 6 months. It's why we only use used vehciles, it's tool painful to look at the new ones after a while.
patgizz wrote: blow up, rebuild, blow up again, blow up some more. both that and the 3 speed they used with the 3.0 were under-engineered for a minivan. if you've ever had one apart you would be appalled at the size of certain things relative to the size of the vehicle they are attempting to move. when i can walk into a trans shop with a grenaded planetary assembly in my hand in pieces and he says "oh another caravan i've got a pile of those in the back" without telling him anything - you have a problem.
Not suprised, Minivan = car parts used for light truck duty. Most people don't realize this and the minivan dies an early death. Honda and Toyota has problems with their minivans. Overall it is a very well engineered car. I dearly love mine and as long as you stick to the heavy duty service schedule, the car will survive. You can get a clutch fill volume test on these cars and gauge the life of that transmission.
integraguy wrote:GRM once had a Caravan in it's fleet....it had a somewhat ignominous end.
If by "ignominous" you mean "stayed in the family," then, yes, that's how it ended. Margie's dad bought it when the Odyssey arrived, then I bought it from Margie's dad when he stopped driving. My wife drove it until we got her Mazda5 in '07, then I felt it was too valuable of a tool to let go, so it became my beater/airport/MX track/Home Depot vehicle. I drive it to work today, in fact.
The trans in this one was done at 80k, and with 160k on the clock now the rebuild still feels fine. The most it ever asks for is regular fluids, and I did all four brakes a few months ago (rotors, drums, pads, shoes, hardware) for under $300. It had some episodes with what was probably a body control module. Occasionally it just wouldn't start. Didn't throw any codes or anything, just cranked, fired once, then immediately died. Never could track down the problem because it would miraculously fix itself. My solution was to drive it every day for a month. Hasn't done it's little no-start routine in about eight months now.
It's getting ugly—the clear coat is peeling, and it needs a headliner—but the interior materials have all held up fantastically to some serious abuse.
Me Rikey.
jg
Plenty of turbo PT cruisers with 604s running around making 400 lb ft of torque and running 12s, etc.
As for the 3spd, it has moved a car down the 1/4 mile in 8 seconds at 180 mph.
The trick here is to have someone build it and operate it who KNOW how to do it and CARE whether it breaks. Serious racecar owners seem to be about the only ones who've got both.
And as for the car parts used for light truck duty... man, the 4l60 in chevy trucks is more of a joke than the 604 by far! And i still think its a good transmission! Again, all depends on the owner.. not all Pit Bulls will bite you, and not all 604s and 670s are junk.. depends on the owner and how it was 'raised and fed'. 
Oh and JG, my guess is intermittent failure of the crank position sensor, or a loose connection in the harness somewhere above the bellhousing.. theres a big connector there with lots of important sensor circuits running through it like MAP sensor. Ive had no-starts that were fixed by just jostling that harness, and cleaning/reseating the connectors.
