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SEADave
SEADave Reader
3/6/14 4:10 p.m.
DCharger68 wrote: It's going in my 77 Camaro as a mild street/strip car (it may not be that mild but I run with 550hp+ big block and boosted cars).

Sounds like you have some good advice on your motor questions. Let us know if you have any questions about brakes/steering/suspension, etc. There are a number of 2nd gen F body folks on here.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/6/14 7:16 p.m.

Thanks for all the help guys. And I'll definitely be back if I need help again.

turboswede
turboswede UltimaDork
3/6/14 7:42 p.m.

No need to run off. Hang out and absorb some crazy. :)

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/6/14 8:00 p.m.

In reply to turboswede:

I fully intend to lol. I'm young and willing to learn.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/6/14 8:46 p.m.

So on a bit of a side note, I've gotta get my 307 out of my dad's garage because I'm storing my flathead there now. Anyone know how to build a wooden engine cradle?

Appleseed
Appleseed UltimaDork
3/6/14 9:09 p.m.

If the engines already out of the car, I'd suggest plopping a 350 in there to start. I looked on Indy's CraigList and there are a few 350s under $500. The 307 has a tiny bore which limits breathing. You could get 350hp out of one without even trying and then throw boost to it.

LT1

350 for $350

350 for $400

In Louisville:

350TBI for $400

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/6/14 9:29 p.m.

Well I have the 307 already and I'm kinda trying to keep it as low dollar as possible because I'm budget limited due to college. But later on I plan on swapping the 307/th350 combo out for a turbo 406 or 427sbc with a glide. I'm using the 307 as kind of a learning experience. And I figure it's better to learn and screw up on a cheap engine than a high dollar, high power monster of an engine. I bought the 307 in high school and haven't messed with it until recently when I got my Camaro.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
3/6/14 9:57 p.m.

It has a bigger bore than a 305, I say go for it. Save for a 400 short block at some point.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/6/14 10:09 p.m.

The plan is to get the Camaro on the road and get everything modified the way I want, then save for an aftermarket 400 block so I can go complete overkill on it.

Mitchell
Mitchell UltraDork
3/6/14 10:11 p.m.
turboswede wrote: What I described is essentially the scientific method. http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0707_motorsports_science/ AKA: Observe Define Hypothesis Experiment Conclusion Many times what happens is that people change a bunch of things at once, have a problem, but since so many things have been touched and changed, there's no easy way to sort out where the issue may be. So start simple, get it running (maybe even on a stock ECU by stealing the entire working EFI setup from a junkyard rig), then start adding changes/improvements that are desired and if something doesn't work quite right, back that change out and see if it improves or changes.

I completely agree with this. Also in my findings, productivity is much, much higher when I feel like I'm in the home stretch. Instead of a single Super Bowl, separate the project into a series of minor victories.

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
3/6/14 10:14 p.m.
DCharger68 wrote: The plan is to get the Camaro on the road and get everything modified the way I want, then save for an aftermarket 400 block so I can go complete overkill on it.

That will be fun. I still have a copy of a mag article I found in my library with a Dart 400 block set up with 450 cubes. That block with modern turbos would be easily capable of well over 1000 hp. Don't think about that, though. A good set of heads/cam/intake and that 307 will be fun and rumpitty and it will make you smile.

Appleseed
Appleseed UltimaDork
3/6/14 10:53 p.m.

Point taken. Plus, no one will cry if you nuke it trying to get a demon tune on the carb.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/6/14 11:20 p.m.

In reply to tuna55:

I want to leave it under 430 cubic inches so I can still compete in small block classes in drag week. But I'm gonna get the 307 going for now though. I've got a cam that should give me some lope and make it a good little engine until it's time to upgrade.

In reply to Appleseed:

You get what I'm saying lol. Gotta love the cheap stuff for learning.

TIGMOTORSPORTS
TIGMOTORSPORTS Reader
3/8/14 7:47 a.m.

I love this thread. GM car, 2nd gen Camaro, 307, turbo, budget build.

My first car was a 75 Camaro. I have a 78 Z28 that I have owned since 1990. My brother had a couple of 307 cars (68 Impala Conv't and a 72 Nova). The Nova was fun to drive.

I've considered previously a cheap S10 build with turbo with a 305/307 combo - based on being simple and inexpensive fun.

Anyways, here is a link to another publication that built a 307:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/cams_heads_valvetrain/sucp_0604_chevy_engine_performance/

I would think used Vortec heads would help bring the price down.

Also, I've wondered about Edelbrock carbs -without a power valve - if they would handle boost OK with a carb hat.

Are you looking at mostly drag/street or going around cones? I'm a former bracket racer.

I'm not a turbo guy, but I'm a second gen Camaro and GM guy.

bentwrench
bentwrench Reader
3/8/14 12:27 p.m.

All this chatter and I'd already have it running with an MS2 and some kind of port manifold, or even a TBI like this Holly

edizzle89
edizzle89 New Reader
3/8/14 3:24 p.m.

I know you can do 454 injectors in a small block tbi unit, I though I've seen aftermarket tbi injectors before somewhere

bentwrench
bentwrench Reader
3/8/14 3:41 p.m.

You can buy an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for the TBI but you will have a better experience with port injection. For starters TBI runs at a lower pressure than port injection. I don't recommend that Holly just using it for an example. I have had less than stellar experiences with both Holley and Edelbrock Fuel injection systems electronics and injectors (and support sucks). My only hesitation on the Holley would be the injectors.

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog Dork
3/8/14 3:50 p.m.

So now I'm thinking 307/305+Vortec heads=win. I don't even have a car for it and I want to go to the junk yard. I need to stop reading these threads....at least until one of you goes and does it so I can read about it without getting dirty.

bentwrench
bentwrench Reader
3/8/14 3:56 p.m.
DCharger68 wrote: In reply to tuna55: I want to leave it under 430 cubic inches so I can still compete in small block classes in drag week. But I'm gonna get the 307 going for now though. I've got a cam that should give me some lope and make it a good little engine until it's time to upgrade.

A NA cam may not (probably won't work well with a turbo build). Notta turbo expert but I do know that a turbo cam has unique valve timing and very little overlap. Overlap will just push fuel out the exhaust in boost.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/8/14 6:23 p.m.

The cams lobe center is 114. Its a summit racing can that was in the category for supercharger cams. I might upgrade to a set of vortec heads later on. Unless I manage to come across a set of double bumpers fairly cheap.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/8/14 10:21 p.m.

Is there anything special I have to do with rings if I just hone it? Like is there an oversize anything I have to worry about?

TIGMOTORSPORTS
TIGMOTORSPORTS Reader
3/9/14 9:47 a.m.

In reply to Junkyard_Dog: Do it

S10 or 3rd gen Camaro's are probably the cheapest for this engine build. I see 3rd gen Camaro's for $500 frequently on Craigslist. Since the inside is probably already trashed - it will make it easier to tear out

TIGMOTORSPORTS
TIGMOTORSPORTS Reader
3/9/14 9:50 a.m.

The 2nd gen Camaro tends to be weak/rust out around the upper rear shock mounts. These often require having new metal plating welded in. Also, the rear leaf springs tend to crack from rust/age-especially when under frequent smoky burnout launches.

pres589
pres589 UltraDork
3/9/14 10:45 a.m.

In reply to DCharger68:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2002-subaru-impreza-wrx/gapping-rings/

After the hone, check the gap on your compression rings and match each pair of rings to a cylinder. Like you get a couple for #1 and install them there, so each set is matched up. For actual gap specs, I would probably talk to the company that makes the rings themselves. Let them know that you're building a turbo motor because it will most likely change the spec.

DCharger68
DCharger68 New Reader
3/9/14 1:44 p.m.

So what gap would I run for NA? I'm just gonna run that way for a while then put new rings in when I go turbo.

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