Duratec 2.5 Swapping - Technical Advice

volvoclearinghouse said:

Knurled. said:

Take measurements.  Duratecs, like most modern four cylinder engines, are TALL.

I found this on an MG site.  Looks like they notched the cross member to clear the oil pan.  Alternatively one could move the engine back, with some firewall massaging.  This might work out OK since the ranger trans (M5OD-R1) has the shifter fairly far forward.  

If that's the swap I'm thinking of, that's a Zetec, not a Duratec.

That is a Duratec engine.

It looks like you can't set the engine further back without severe firewall surgery, so notching the frame to clear the bottom of the block is the only real option there.

Reminds me- some consideration does need to go into the swap- the ZTEC has the exhaust exiting on the drivers side- which is the most common of old cars.  Whereas the Duratec has it on the passenger side- so the whole interference between the frame rails and the brakes flip over.

A Zetec should be a consideration at least. The 2.5 duratec is rated for 170hp and so is the SVT Zetec. The normal focus zetec was 130hp. Even though its an iron block it weighed around 260lbs with a/t flywheel and complete from throttle body to exhaust manifold. A couple of brackets but no accessories. 

Bolts up to old Ford 4 cylinder rwd transmissions. The 2.3 Lima had dual bolt patterns with two different locations at the top of the block near the head. The zetec only has the lower set and the T-4 and T-5 borg warner transmissions used the upper holes. The old pinto transmissions used the lower holes. Put the flywheel, clutch and starter that goes with the transmission and it should bolt up to the zetec. Might have to have the dowels drilled to the larger size of the two or turn a stepped pair. Honing of the rough cast hole in the end of the crank for the pilot bearing can be done with a hand held power tool. 

Edit: The pinto had a Type E 4 speed. The Xr4ti has the 5 speed version of it, Type 9. Thats a solution for a 5 speed. Or use a plate to cover the two sets of holes ( 4 holes) and notch the bellhousing around the plate, then you can use a mustangs 4 banger t-5.

A well trodden path for MGB engine swaps is the GM 2.8/3.1/3.4 V6 range, which in the latter case give better power than the Duratec 2.3 and are very little hassle to install - engine mount and ancillary kits are available for that swap.

This is a 3.4 that I swapped into an MGA (which is a lot more work than the almost bolt in procedure on an MGB).  The bodywork won't look familiar as it is after market.  Nice GT, BTW.

alfadriver said:

Reminds me- some consideration does need to go into the swap- the ZTEC has the exhaust exiting on the drivers side- which is the most common of old cars.  Whereas the Duratec has it on the passenger side- so the whole interference between the frame rails and the brakes flip over.

In the case of the Volvo, at least, the old B20 engine has the exhaust on the passenger side.  Of course, it also has the intake on that side.  

I gave some thought to Vee-Six engines, but they seem to be about as long as a four, and much wider, especially if they're OHC.  

There seems to be some disagreement and confusion about what mates with what, as far as transmissions and engines.  Here in the states we never got a T-9.  So, for simplicity, grabbing an entire ranger drivetrain seems like the best path forward.  

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

The Type 9 (manufactured by FoMoCo of Germany, not a Borg Warner product so calling it a T-9 is great shorthand but alludes to a connect to a T-4 or T-5 which is incorrect) came in the Merkur XR4Ti here in the states. But the Mustangs T-5 is a much more common. The Type E is from Pintos and the Type 9 is a Type E with the 5th gear in the tailhousing.

Lots of parts available for both gearboxes due to Europes use of these transmission in all sorts of builds, not unlike how we use the T-5.

Taylor Race Engineering has lots of parts. But for racecar prices. You can even buy new ones. The Quaife gearbox is a continuation the Type E/9 design similar to what Hewland did for the VW transaxle.

Edit: but in truth all of this stuff is getting pretty old. A duratec makes more sense unless you are trying to be super cheap.

In reply to RossD :

I was thinking about that (price and availability). The 2.5 can be had low miles, a few years old, for sub $400 all over the place. It was cheaper to do that than a ranger 2.3 to replace the blown one my truck came with. If you're going for whole drivetrain, i can see how a ranger/b2300 2.3 could make more sense. VCH, lots of govdeals locations near us you can keep an eye on for donors, too.

In reply to bluej :

Absolutely, most of my journey with zetecs and old transmissions started 10-15 years ago when I started collecting locost parts. Now duratecs are even getting old.

RossD said:

In reply to bluej :

Absolutely, most of my journey with zetecs and old transmissions started 10-15 years ago when I started collecting locost parts. Now duratecs are even getting old.

Yep. I remember being thiiiis close to buying one of the first focus to get the duratec (MA, so they did the 2.3 to meet power along with emissions for pzev I think).

And wherever you put a duratec, you might be able to bolt in an ecoboost later.. 

Actually, I've been looking for some info w/out funding a reliable answer, maybe this group would know:

What's a reliable FI power limit for the 2.5 duratec's? I can find mention of 2.3's in the mid 300's, but I'd like 2.5 points of ref if possible. I'm interested in both max hp, and what sort of torque at what rpms starts  busting stuff.

In reply to bluej :

A bit of a necro-bump. 

The 2.5 seems to survive pretty well at around 400-430whp. Mine was around 375ft-lbs. It made more, but we detuned it for longevity. I kept it under 7,500 RPM.

I managed to crack a couple ring lands spiking to 30+psi. But before that, it was stout!

johnvitamvas said:

In reply to bluej :

A bit of a necro-bump. 

The 2.5 seems to survive pretty well at around 400-430whp. Mine was around 375ft-lbs. It made more, but we detuned it for longevity. I kept it under 7,500 RPM.

 

I managed to crack a couple ring lands spiking to 30+psi. But before that, it was stout!

Wow, John, you're amazing. That's exactly the info I was hoping to hear. Do you know around what rpm most are making that 400-430?? Similarly your 375 ft lbs? I have a smaller turbo that runs out of exhaust flow by 6500, so I'm worried about letting boost come in too soon for the rods to be happy, and trying to work back to what safe levels at lower rpm are.

New here and I'm sure there's some introduction I should do, I also realize this is an old post, but figured I might be able to add some insight to running a 2.0 or 2.3 Duratec in places it isn't intended to be if anyone is still interested.  I run a 2.0L from a focus in my hydroplane using the factory ECU, wiring etc, no tune.  It doesn't seem to care that there are 12-15 transmission related error codes and still lets me run at 6800ish RPM for 15 minutes straight during a heat.  I just zip-tie the matching key to the PATS transponder to get around that issue, pretty simple but not exactly elegant. I don't use the dash from the car, or fuel pump setup.  I have a vacuum referenced return type system.  I also bypassed any neutral safety or park position switch by running a separate starting circuit.  I have a wiring diagram I can provide if anyone is interested.  Not sure if links are allowed... but here are some pictures.  These are a little old and I have made some changes, but it gives you the idea.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/WYLK7mWBsJZpGdAHA.  The boat runs great and is super reliable.  We ran 65ish heats in a row with no issues on a 140k engine until we barrel rolled and the engine went downhill quickly. 

Currently working on a 2.0L duratec swap into a '78 Fiat 124 Spider with an NC miata 6 speed

Welcome aboard, and thanks for the input!

Badass boat.  It gives me ideas.