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Jerry
Jerry Dork
6/9/14 8:38 a.m.

Doing some fiddling with the Abarth. I'm learning a whole new language of tools apparently. To replace the rear torsion bar, I should use a E18 Torx wrench (ext torx) along with a 21mm wrench. To remove the front end to replace the fog lights (a separate rant) with PIAA bulbs I need a T30 Torx bit, and needed a T50 to remove the rear seat buckle bracket when I deleted the seat.

Who decided to replace regular English and Metric fasteners, and good old Phillips screws, with fancy new fasteners? The rear seat buckles were my first foray into the unknown. Hex, Torx, I made 3 trips out to my car at Pep Boys trying to figure out what fit into that fastener!

Ranger50
Ranger50 PowerDork
6/9/14 8:52 a.m.

The theory I heard is the chance of over torquing Torx is less then regular Phillips. As to the external Torx they are always placed in the tightest spot possible for clearance problems that don't exist.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy UltraDork
6/9/14 9:10 a.m.

I suspect that those fasteners are also related to the use of automated assembly line machinery.

Honestly, in most cases I prefer torx to regular screws.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UberDork
6/9/14 9:22 a.m.
HappyAndy wrote: Honestly, in most cases I prefer torx to regular screws.

No kidding - ever disassembled a Keihin carb that has a bunch of Philips head screws in it? They're inevitably stuck in there and you can't apply enough torque to break them loose without an impact screwdriver. Last time I did that, I ended up replacing every Philips head screw I removed with a stainless steel Allen head bolt.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 UltimaDork
6/9/14 9:29 a.m.

I guess you have never had a Volvo 850. Everything on the car is torx bit. You can not change the spark plugs without having a torx bit (to remove plastic cover.)
Once you have a bit set, working on the car was very easy.
I had these two sets and could get everything.

I kept them in the spare tire area of the car since it was all that called for them and then I would have them too if I broke down on the road.

t25torx
t25torx HalfDork
6/9/14 9:47 a.m.

You rang?

jstand
jstand Reader
6/9/14 9:52 a.m.

I have just come to expect there to be Torx bits required in certain areas.

The one I was surprised by was the "tri-square" needed for VW axles.

GM has been using Torx for decades. I've had to use Torx bits to change light bulbs, seat belts, door strikers, and interior trim on GM trucks as old as 1980.

K car crank pulleys also used external Torx bolts.

SlickDizzy
SlickDizzy PowerDork
6/9/14 9:53 a.m.

Saab is another manufacturer that seems to use Torx fasteners on just about everything. Compared to Philips, I love 'em - as others have noted they are a billion times harder to strip out.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
6/9/14 9:54 a.m.

My only issue with Torx is that the bits themselves become a wear item for anything that actually takes any sort of torque.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy SuperDork
6/9/14 10:24 a.m.

On a 1.9L Opel you need 3 different Tri-square bits, one for the head bolts, one for intake to exhaust and I can't remember the other. Torx would be a huge step up for ease of use.

neon4891
neon4891 UltimaDork
6/9/14 10:50 a.m.

How is the room in it with the rear seat out?

Will
Will SuperDork
6/9/14 11:01 a.m.

I suspect that they use Torx bits on seatbelts because they really don't want anyone removing those, so they use an uncommon fastener.

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 SuperDork
6/9/14 11:39 a.m.
oldopelguy wrote: On a 1.9L Opel you need 3 different Tri-square bits, one for the head bolts, one for intake to exhaust and I can't remember the other. Torx would be a huge step up for ease of use.

Not sure if it's the third one you mean but need a special Tri-square bit to remove the brake rotor from the front hub (after removing the hub). At least on the GT.

bluej
bluej SuperDork
6/9/14 11:41 a.m.

pin in head torx = one of the better security fasteners. you can actually tighten it enough to matter versus the double pin spanner types.

Knurled
Knurled PowerDork
6/9/14 12:36 p.m.
Jerry wrote: Doing some fiddling with the Abarth. I'm learning a whole new language of tools apparently. To replace the rear torsion bar, I should use a E18 Torx wrench (ext torx) along with a 21mm wrench. To remove the front end to replace the fog lights (a separate rant) with PIAA bulbs I need a T30 Torx bit, and needed a T50 to remove the rear seat buckle bracket when I deleted the seat. Who decided to replace regular English and Metric fasteners, and good old Phillips screws, with fancy new fasteners? The rear seat buckles were my first foray into the unknown. Hex, Torx, I made 3 trips out to my car at Pep Boys trying to figure out what fit into that fastener!

Torx are nice, they don't round off and they "keep" in a socket more nicely without having to resort to things like stuffing paper in between the fastener and socket.

Now, if you want something to complain about, how about how there are two or three different FLAVORS of Torx. This is before you get into the five-sided ones or the tamper-proof variants of all of them. Reciting all of the different Torx would be like Bubba talking about shrimp.

BTW - I did a valve cover on a late model BMW last week. Every fastener, EVERY fastener, was Torx or inverted Torx. Even the valve cover bolts, which are torque to yield aluminum bolts.

pappatho
pappatho New Reader
6/9/14 12:58 p.m.
Knurled wrote: Now, if you want something to complain about, how about how there are two or three different FLAVORS of Torx. This is before you get into the five-sided ones or the tamper-proof variants of all of them. Reciting all of the different Torx would be like Bubba talking about shrimp. BTW - I did a valve cover on a late model BMW last week. Every fastener, EVERY fastener, was Torx or inverted Torx. Even the valve cover bolts, which are torque to yield aluminum bolts.

Isn't Phillips similar? My understanding is the Phillips looking screws from Japan are really a JIS head style which is slightly different. There also is Pozidrive and maybe others that look like Phillips but are not. All of these have multiple sizes. Maybe the JIS screw head is part of the issue with the Keihins noted above?

Jerry
Jerry Dork
6/9/14 1:01 p.m.
neon4891 wrote: How is the room in it with the rear seat out?

Wonderful. Even with the rear seat folded down, it didn't seem to fit very much. And with the seat up, it didn't seem to fit people very much. Removed the seats and center buckles, fashioned a cover from a large carpet from Lowes cut to fit, a little quilt batting to help noise reduction, and loving it.

Although SWMBO did question my sanity on complaining about cargo room after buying the smallest car possible.

Sky_Render
Sky_Render Dork
6/9/14 1:01 p.m.

Wow, I have precisely zero external Torx wrenches in my toolbox.

It's always interesting to see how different cultures approach engineering.

Jerry
Jerry Dork
6/9/14 1:02 p.m.
pappatho wrote: There also is Pozidrive and maybe others that look like Phillips but are not.

Ah yes, the Pozidrive fasteners to remove the front end. Forgot that little bit as well.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
6/9/14 1:37 p.m.

TORX = Satan.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 Dork
6/9/14 1:46 p.m.

I'm very happy that there is not a single Torx on my Miata or RX7

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
6/9/14 3:14 p.m.

I disliked Torx until I bought my first saab 900. once I got to use them, I have really gotten to like them. they do not strip, you can apply even torque, and with the depth the driver fits into the bolt.. you get a really good grip.

Learn to like the torx.. they are superior to Phillips and probably even allen

Jerry
Jerry Dork
6/9/14 3:23 p.m.

Happy to report the 14mm box end wrench did the job for the E18 Ext Torx I never did find anywhere local. The parts manager at Pep Boys even opened a few combo sets and was planning to "rent" it to me if he had one. I thought that was cool of him.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UberDork
6/9/14 4:30 p.m.

You, sir are desperately behind the times. I have standard torx, internal and external, tamperproof torx, and (wait for it) FIVE POINT TAMPERPROOF torx now.

I like them better than a philips, but I'm not sure why they have changed larger bolts over- the first I saw was 1983, when the Volvo 7 series came out.

Knurled
Knurled PowerDork
6/9/14 5:10 p.m.
Sky_Render wrote: Wow, I have precisely zero external Torx wrenches in my toolbox. It's always interesting to see how different cultures approach engineering.

You only need inverted Torx WRENCHES for mid-80s GM wheel cylinders, because there isn't enough room to get a socket on there.

Or you do what we always did, and pop their little heads off with an air chisel, and put regular M6x1.0 bolts in there.

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