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  • June 3, 2011 5:16 p.m. Liv2race New Reader

    Wow! What a great forum! Thanks for all the input. I'll try to answer everything...

    Budget is 4k without selling e30. However, that's all my $ for the season. I spend 4k and no auto x or anything for the season!

    I COULD do a s52 if I max out the budget but I'm having trouble spending my whole budget for a ton of work in the garage and all for 230whp. I know they are awesome. Drove one and went out and bought my e30! But now push comes to shove just doesn't seem to have that it factor for me. Miss my v8s. Stil might go the m50 route for now. I could also fix the m20 as mentioned above but like I said, in bord of that motor. ( know m50 won't be much better) I would love a v8 e30 but after doing homework on this with e30v8.com seems like a lot of holes in the swap. Mainly the brakes. I will be borrowing a friends garage for this so I don't have the luxury of taking my time and figuring out as I go along. I got 2 maybe 3 weekends. If you did a 5.0 e30 please give me info! Seems like the perfect balance!

    The miata, as people said above. The club I go road course with said if I get a convertible they want it to have a scca logbook with a roll bar and perm mounted hard top. Not something I wanna deal with assp when I just wanna put the top down and cruse with the wife on a summer night. I don't mind the slight loss of turn in with the v8 as Im much more interested in the fun aspect rather then the competitive side. (though once behind the wheel I get conpetitive

    As for the fox. Seems like only one person half voted for that. Guess it really isn't that good. Basically the polar opposite of a e30. Has good power and fits Hugh tires stock but the rest is rough.

    Any more input?!

    Thanks again so much guys! This forum is awesome! Got more info and useful opinions here in a few hours compared to a month on 4 others!

  • Osterkraut

    June 3, 2011 5:24 p.m. Osterkraut SuperDork

    Not much to add except I find cross-shopping an e30 and a Foxbody a bit unusual. They're pretty different.

  • June 3, 2011 5:29 p.m. Liv2race New Reader

    I guess. The things I see in common...

    Weight. Fox maybe 200lbs more tops Rear drive. Both tons of parts and potential Cheap

    All things im interested in.

  • ddavidv

    June 3, 2011 5:59 p.m. ddavidv SuperDork

    If you want to go faster, buy a faster car. It really is the most cost effective way to get there.

    When I was considering various race cars/track cars I looked really hard at the Fox Mustang. It would cost about $6 grand to fix the craptastic suspension. Plus with a V8 car you're going to burn through tires, brakes and clutches at a much faster rate. So (ironically) I chose the E30.

    I'm so over Fox Mustangs having driven a few and now having owned the BMW that there is no interest in them for me. I might move up to a newer/faster BMW if I were in your position. I think the M20 is plenty adequate, though I do race in a spec class with mine. The suspension is where you should spend the money. A Miata is going to be only just as fast as your E30.

  • Greg Voth

    June 3, 2011 6:37 p.m. Greg Voth HalfDork

    Why are the brakes a hole in the E30 V8 Swap? You can upgrade them if you need to. A motor swap kit isn't going to address stuff like that.

    Motor and trans mount, wiring, radiator, exhaust, maybe rear end. Sure.

    Suspension and brakes. Nope.

    I am a big fan of swaps for their uniqueness. It is usually a more cost effective and sometimes more reliable way to reach your power goals. Right now I own or co-own 4 cars with a Ford 5.0 (RX-7, Miata, Volvo and Triumph) and recently sold another Volvo with a Chevy Swap.

    Here is the V8 Miata we build for the Challenge last year. Like I said earlier we have it for sale for $4k ($2010 budget did not including cage and some other stuff on the car now). With the Eibach springs, KYB reds and FM front sway it handled very well in the Autocross with a tendancy toward oversteer rather than understeer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic81M-TmQV4&feature=channel_video_title

    http://www.youtube.com/user/lastminuteracing1#p/u/21/dDpfHx0Kt44

  • June 3, 2011 7:38 p.m. Liv2race New Reader

    Sorry. Shoulda been alittle more clear on the brakes. I like the e30 brakes... ESP with the track pads. But the the 5.0 swap I gotta go to manual brakes or hydroboost. The 5.0 is in the way with the booster and there is no clear easy solution.

  • Giant Purple Snorklewacker

    June 3, 2011 7:52 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

    Liv2race wrote:

    Sorry. Shoulda been alittle more clear on the brakes. I like the e30 brakes... ESP with the track pads. But the the 5.0 swap I gotta go to manual brakes or hydroboost. The 5.0 is in the way with the booster and there is no clear easy solution.

    A Tilton pedalbox solves the problem nicely.

  • June 3, 2011 8:26 p.m. Dav New Reader

    double post

  • June 3, 2011 8:26 p.m. Dav New Reader

    See my Fox

    See my Fox pass Evo

    See my Fox pressure 3-series

    See 3-series put a wheel off

    Go Fox Go

  • June 3, 2011 8:36 p.m. dj06482 Reader

    Osterkraut wrote:

    Not much to add except I find cross-shopping an e30 and a Foxbody a bit unusual. They're pretty different.

    I've found that BMWs and Mustangs they're actually more alike than you'd think. I went from two mildly modded '92 Mustang 5.0s (one 5spd GT, and one 5spd Notchback LX) to a stock '97 328is (E36). The drivetrains actually have a similar feel, especially with all the torque down low. When I first started driving my E36 I thought - "Wow, this feels a lot more like a Fox Mustang than I would have expected."

    The E36 doesn't have the brake dive of the Fox chassis, and the rear end feels more planted over bumps, but the overall feeling is more similar than you'd expect up to say 7/10s. After that, the BMW has far better balance.

    I think the perfect marriage is the 5.0/E36 swap. If I could find an OBD1 E36, I could probably swap to the Ford 302 and still pass emissions (tailpipe test on the rollers for pre-96 cars in our state).

  • HStockSolo

    June 3, 2011 9:11 p.m. HStockSolo New Reader

    Liv2race wrote: I COULD do a s52 if I max out the budget but I'm having trouble spending my whole budget for a ton of work in the garage and all for 230whp. I know they are awesome. Drove one and went out and bought my e30! But now push comes to shove just doesn't seem to have that it factor for me. Miss my v8s. Stil might go the m50 route for now.
    Cheap M50 non-Vanos. The early Vanos units probably all need work. Mine might work, but it sounds horrible. Plus it is extra weight way up front and high. I'd prefer the M54B30 over any of the iron blocks. But it might be harder to find those cheaply.

    I still think an aluminum V6 would be the best choice for autocrossing.

    M20 = 258 lbs M50 = 300 lbs M54 = 278 lbs <--- This one S52 = 335 lbs S54 = 478 lbs

  • June 3, 2011 9:35 p.m. Liv2race New Reader

    Thanks yet again guys.

    So, got it down to the e30 with some kinda motor swap and a fox.

    That tilton box looks great. Don't think that will fit under a stock dash though.

    The problem with a nv m50 is it's just 1500$ in swap parts. Plus the motor. Say... 1000$ ( motor with all accessories etc. ) then. 500$ miss fluids hoses etc. That's 3k for near m20 performance. Even 2k is tough to swallow for me for stock level performance.

    5.0? ill start looking more into master/booster solutions.

  • mrhappy

    June 4, 2011 12:19 a.m. mrhappy Reader

    You could use a m30.

  • njansenv

    June 4, 2011 6:48 a.m. njansenv HalfDork

    Liv2race wrote:

    Thanks yet again guys.

    So, got it down to the e30 with some kinda motor swap and a fox.

    That tilton box looks great. Don't think that will fit under a stock dash though.

    The problem with a nv m50 is it's just 1500$ in swap parts. Plus the motor. Say... 1000$ ( motor with all accessories etc. ) then. 500$ miss fluids hoses etc. That's 3k for near m20 performance. Even 2k is tough to swallow for me for stock level performance.

    5.0? ill start looking more into master/booster solutions.

    You should be able to swap an M50 for much less money than that... Engine: $500 w/ECU Ebay header: ? Exhaust: $300? Wiring: free but time consuming Use E30 trans Done.

    It's not the "best" way, but it'll get you on the road....

  • June 4, 2011 5:33 p.m. Liv2race New Reader

    Yeah. Just not into them motors. Still deciding.....

    Also looking into sn95s now...

  • Travis_K

    June 4, 2011 6:56 p.m. Travis_K SuperDork

    I have driven both an E30 and a miata, and ridden in a fox body, and the only one I would own is an E30 ( I dont becasue they arent really in good enough shape anymore, but thats another story). A complete M50 should be available for $500 or less from the junkyard if you decide that would work.

  • June 6, 2011 10:47 a.m. camaroz1985 Reader

    We just have manual brake setup for our 5.0 E30. Worked ok for testing with crap pads. Should be better now with good pads and 4 functioning calipers (only 3 were working before).

  • Apexcarver

    June 6, 2011 11:23 a.m. Apexcarver SuperDork

    Liv2race wrote:

    The miata, as people said above. The club I go road course with said if I get a convertible they want it to have a scca logbook with a roll bar and perm mounted hard top. Not something I wanna deal with assp when I just wanna put the top down and cruse with the wife on a summer night. I don't mind the slight loss of turn in with the v8 as Im much more interested in the fun aspect rather then the competitive side. (though once behind the wheel I get conpetitive

    Logbooks are not a huge thing to get.

    "permanatly attached" for a miata hardtop does not mean not removable. It means bolted on. That is the way Spec Miata does it. So it means, rollbar (should get anyway) and spec miata brackets and when you are done with your trackday you undo somewhere between 4-8 bolts and lift off your top.

    Every vehicle that runs a hillclimb for instance, must have a logbook. Autopower (or for miata, some of the Harddog) bars ARE LEGAL (if you buy the right ones) you might need to have a harness as well. I have seen a bone stock Porsche 911 convertable with an autopower bar, harnesses, and arm straps that was street driven to the event and raced. None of those parts preclude taking off any of the equipment that makes it a enjoyable and usable street car. The harnesses and arm restraints can be installed at the event even. For you, the hardtop can be bolted on at home before driving to the track.

    hardtop brackets http://www.rennenmetal.com/proddetail.asp?prod=1335 thats just the first website that came up, i am sure you can find better deals out there

  • WilberM3

    June 6, 2011 11:27 a.m. WilberM3 Dork

    HStockSolo wrote:

    Liv2race wrote: I COULD do a s52 if I max out the budget but I'm having trouble spending my whole budget for a ton of work in the garage and all for 230whp. I know they are awesome. Drove one and went out and bought my e30! But now push comes to shove just doesn't seem to have that it factor for me. Miss my v8s. Stil might go the m50 route for now.
    Cheap M50 non-Vanos. The early Vanos units probably all need work. Mine might work, but it sounds horrible. Plus it is extra weight way up front and high. I'd prefer the M54B30 over any of the iron blocks. But it might be harder to find those cheaply.

    I still think an aluminum V6 would be the best choice for autocrossing.

    M20 = 258 lbs M50 = 300 lbs M54 = 278 lbs <--- This one S52 = 335 lbs S54 = 478 lbs

    i haven't been reading up on the newer engine swaps lately but the idea of an all aluminum i6 found increasingly cheaper has me interested. what are the swaps running for engine management? chipped factory DME to turn off unnecessaries and simplified harness? i'd want to retain the dual-vanos.

  • HStockSolo

    June 6, 2011 12:10 p.m. HStockSolo New Reader

    In reply to WilberM3:

    I was reading about an M54 swap into a E36. I believe the guy was using a S50US ECU, so didn't have control of the exhaust VANOS. Evidently a lot of parts are interchangeable from the M50 and newer engines.

    M54 E30 Swap http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=116803 http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread.php?p=367021

  • Ian F

    June 6, 2011 12:55 p.m. Ian F SuperDork

    Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

    You know... you could just pull the cam out the front and replace all the rockers. We have done it at the track, in the paddock in about 2 hours hampered by at least a 6 pack worth of booze. It is not a complicated or expensive job.

    EDIT: 2 hrs was to fix one rocker at cyl 5 not to replace them all. I'd pull the head if I was doing them all.

    I just finished finally replacing a cyl #1 broken intake rocker (replaced all w/ I.E. HD rockers) in my E30. Pulling the head is not required. Didn't pull the cam either, just the rocker shafts. It was definitely a tedious job... but I find working on this car tedious in general. I would imagine it would have gone faster for someone more enthusiastic about the car.

  • Uncoiled

    June 6, 2011 5:18 p.m. Uncoiled New Reader

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E30-I6-STAINLESS-MANIFOLD-TURBO-CHARGER-KIT-14-...

    Hmmmmmm....

    I dont know much about turbos but heres a guy that did this turbo kit(or one similar) on the cheap...

    http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=202389&highlight=ebay+turbo+kit

  • June 6, 2011 8:03 p.m. Liv2race New Reader

    Yeah the s54 is heavy!

    Well I can't find a solution I like right now. I like a 5.0 ford option but I can't do to no time. I am buying a house with a nice garage within a 6 months so I think I'm just going to fix the stock m20 for now so I can still race this season and then do something over the winter!

    Even the ford guys mostly say still eith the BMW. So I really think I'll keep the chassis I like and make the motor I want go in! Thanks sooooo much for all the input and help!

  • mr2peak

    June 7, 2011 2:25 a.m. mr2peak Reader

    1uzfe E30

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