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July 16, 2011 4:53 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork

Time for automotive ADD to kick in. My current DD has been with me almost 3.5 years now which, if you know me, is a loooooong time for me. Its been a great car and will probably be going to my daughter who is getting her license in Dec.

In thinking about what I want next I know first off that I dont want to buy another new car. I get bored too fast and put too many miles on a car to bother buying new. Willing to sacrifice a little fuel economy for more power and comfort. Since I rack up about 40,000 miles a year on a car a low mile example of anything is wasted on me so that's not a concern.

I've been leaning toward E36 BMWs, particularly M3s. So a few direct questions and an open one to say "what should I know about these cars"

The direct questions 1) I do alot of terrible traffic commuting. So, while I theoretically love a car with a man pedal I'm not opposed to an automatic. How much fun does the auto suck out of the car (considering my commute is 60 miles of 3 lane highway at 80+mph)?

2) Any experience with the convertibles? It seems all the M3s Im finding local are 'verts. Im not necessarily opposed to them but I know I wouldn't live with the top down either.

This will be a 4 season car for me, in the northeast, but the roads I travel are well plowed and if the weather is too bad I have the option to work from home.

Educate me please.
July 16, 2011 5:01 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork

Oh, and as odd as it may sound my 2nd choice in the E36 world is the 318TI so info on those or really any general info on the E36 world is appreciated.
July 16, 2011 5:38 p.m. mike Reader

I'll say this: a 318TI with an automatic is a total dog if you have any elevation changes at all. Sucked ALL of the fun out of the car, bleah yuckie. Otherwise, the car still speaks to me (although the words sound like "please install S50/S52 and a six-speed, please").
July 16, 2011 5:46 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork

mike wrote:

I'll say this: a 318TI with an automatic is a total dog if you have any elevation changes at all. Sucked ALL of the fun out of the car, bleah yuckie. Otherwise, the car still speaks to me (although the words sound like "please install S50/S52 and a six-speed, please").

Oh, doh, yeah I should have said the TI would be a manual only. Auto's considered on the M3 and other 6 cyl models only.
July 16, 2011 5:56 p.m. Sonic Dork

Jim, you and I should compare notes, I'm also semi seriously looking for another e36 M3, or an M Roadster.

The cars are well built and long lasting. At this point, the hard part is sorting out the cars that have been obviously neglected or thrashed by kids who found they could afford to buy them, but not maintain them properly. Assume that you will have to replace bushings, control arms, radiator/thermostat housing, and some of the interior on nearly any E36.

My 98 M3/4/5 got 22.6 MPG average, up to 27 all highway.
July 16, 2011 6:07 p.m. MadScientistMatt Dork

Got a 328i convertible myself. The PO had replaced the top, but that may have just been the fabric and window - the headliner is almost certainly original. The front edge can leak a bit in very heavy storms, but it stays dry unless it pours for hours. Which occasionally happens in Atlanta.

They sometimes develop a problem with the back of the top not picking up enough to clear the tonneau cover. This is caused by the elastic straps losing their tension - you can re-tighten them. I need to do this myself, just been too lazy to do it. I'm not sure I can condone an engineering school of thought that uses three separate motors to lower the top instead of a single motor working through a linkage, but the mechanism has held up pretty well.

Yep, they're heavier than the fixed roof versions, by a couple hundred pounds, so a drop top won't be quite as fast. Mine can barely get into the 15's in the quarter mile.

I test drove an automatic once. Don't remember too much about it, but it's not quite as fun sapping as an automatic behind a four banger, and it isn't as good as the automatic in my Corvette or Suburban. Come to think of it, the E36s used a GM-built automatic.
July 16, 2011 6:08 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork

Sonic wrote:

Jim, you and I should compare notes, I'm also semi seriously looking for another e36 M3, or an M Roadster.

The cars are well built and long lasting. At this point, the hard part is sorting out the cars that have been obviously neglected or thrashed by kids who found they could afford to buy them, but not maintain them properly. Assume that you will have to replace bushings, control arms, radiator/thermostat housing, and some of the interior on nearly any E36.

My 98 M3/4/5 got 22.6 MPG average, up to 27 all highway.

I saw "obviously neglected" today when I stopped to look at a blue E3 'vert at Turnersville BMW (if it was on your radar, take it off) its worth maybe 1/2 their asking price and even then I'd walk away.

I'm being kinda picky on this one, its going to be my DD not a project so Im looking for something that has stuff done and the records to prove it. There's another private seller 'vert with full records that I may go look at, not my favorite color combo but I'll make allowances in the color department for a well maintained car.

I'll keep you informed if I see anything worthwhile. I assume you are not as accepting of a slushbox as I am though.
July 16, 2011 7:01 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

I will say this about the Ti in snow. I run summer tyres all year on the car. (this is why I also own a saab) and the one time I had to drive the ti in the winter, we had some of the worst snowfall amounts in recent history. Literally feet in each storm (I know not a lot.. but usually we only get a foot a winter) and with my car's "winter package" I got through the slick stuff.

Winter package is heated seats, and in early 96 and early cars.. a true LSD. Later cars got traction Control. Mine has the LSD.. one of the last sold to non-M cars.

Honestly, it was a LOT of fun. I didn't get stuck. Only got close to stuck once, all it took was forsight and planning before you made any course corrections.

I will also say this AGAINST the Ti. It was not designed to be a long distance hauler. This was BMW's "City" car and as such, is geared VERY tightly (you have to shift to third at 50mph.. at redline) so it is not quite as economical as it could be. Running close to the speedlimit with aircon off, rear windows poped, sunroof popped (not slid back) and the front windows cracked.. I have seen 35mpg. Of course mine also has the M body kit, is lowered on coilovers, and running M3 rims with stick 235 section rubber on all corners.. so ymmv)
July 18, 2011 10:15 a.m. glueguy Reader

Well, I've had a lot of touches here. A 328i convert auto, a M3/4/5 and a 318i 5 speed.

Regarding the M3 - I wanted a manual but test drove a couple automatics that were convenient to look at. The auto heavily dampens that car. Still very nice, but the auto does sap power and response. I wouldn't rule it out for a stop and crawl commute, but I would drive them first to know what you're getting into.

Regarding the convert - plastic window and it is a complex system where once the tension straps lose tension, it won't work as a one touch system because you will need to move the boot by hand to avoid the parts collision. I wouldn't do one of these unless you really want a convertible. Don't run away, but don't do it unless you want it.

four cylinders - ok engine but not the speediest thing on the block. I wouldn't want an auto behind one of these. Miata displacement and horsepower in a very un-Miata weight package.
July 18, 2011 10:30 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

I was a four-season driver of an E36 M3 and you won't have any issues as long as you buy real snow tires.

They have a light clutch that is not bad in traffic at all. I used to commute in Philly and spent 3-4hrs a day crawling in one.

I wouldnt buy an M3 vert. They are heavy, not as stiff and look hideous with the top up.

There is a buyers guide out there on the interwebs (bimmerforums?) Google for it and it has just about everything you need to know.

Find the best, latest example you can, check it for the big ticket items and enjoy.
July 18, 2011 11:11 a.m. oldtin Dork

I picked up a 318ti for commuter duty a couple of months ago. I'm averaging 30 mpg - mixed town/hwy. Still sorting out PO stuff on the car, but I like the feel. It's not fast, but a nice momentum car with some fun dynamics (e30 rear suspension). If I go nuts with it, an m50/S50/52 is an straightforward swap. LSx swaps are documented too - think m3 that weighs a couple hundred pounds less. The ti interior is simpler than the others. Door clips break, headliners sag, window regulators need regreasing, - all easy stuff. Mrs. Oldtin approves and thinks it's cute, but I should make it look like the PTG M3s.
July 18, 2011 12:38 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork

Thanks for the input everyone.

Been poking at a few here and there. In love with a Dakar Yellow coupe down in NC, was even lining up the plane ticket to fly down, but its at the top of my budget and after talking more with the seller it's lacking some of the maintenace due for its miles which kind of put me off a bit.

Have some nice local candidates to see too:

Silver on black 98 coupe, 5 speed, excellent price but a bit tatty cosmetically, still it has the required maintenace done and far enough below my price threshold to justify paint if I go that way. CEL currently on so waiting on seller to have that checked out/repaired which he is doing this week.

Green on tan 99 Vert, auto, top of my budget but a prime example of what to look for in a used BMW, all maintenace records, all problem items up to date and clean clean clean. I'd probably be more excited about it in a different color and with a 5 speed. Drop top isnt a positive or negative for me. There are times I miss a 'vert but I can live without it too.

Black on black 97, 5 speed, very clean, waiting to hear back on maintenace documentation but its priced reasonably enough to cover doing the cooling system and suspension bushings myself if needed. I think this is the front runner right now but its 2.5 hours away so I have to find time to check it out in person.
July 18, 2011 1:30 p.m. Blitzed306 Reader

mike wrote:

I'll say this: a 318TI with an automatic is a total dog if you have any elevation changes at all. Sucked ALL of the fun out of the car, bleah yuckie. Otherwise, the car still speaks to me (although the words sound like "please install S50/S52 and a six-speed, please").

This, My ex wifes 318i would get smoke by my buddies 3 speed auto Neon.... bad
July 18, 2011 2:24 p.m. dj06482 HalfDork

I haven't driven an auto, so I can't speak to that. However, the 5spd isn't awful in traffic. The clutch is pretty light and they have plenty of torque down low, so getting moving isn't hard. I think this wouldn't be as much fun with the 4cyl, although they're geared differently to compensate.

One thing that I've been impressed with is how well the E36 drives. It's fine for a mindless commuting vehicle, but it is also fun if you want to push things a bit. Sometimes when you're driving a fun car it won't settle down and behave when all you want is a quiet ride. Vice versa, I owned a Saab 9-3 that was a fine commuter, but balked at anything over 5/10ths.

The cooling system is the biggest risk with these cars. Some have plastic impellers in the water pump, and all have a lot of plastic (radiator end tanks and thermostat housings). I proactively replaced my cooling system at 113K, and it was all original and in good shape, so YMMV.

Suspension bushings are something that can usually stand to be replaced, but the drivetrains are relatively bulletproof. Mechanical parts I've found to be quiet reasonable, and random trim pieces can be incredibly expensive ($385 for a rubber door seal, anyone?). I hunt a lot on the Group Buy section on Bimmerforums and the prices there have been the best I've found. For trim pieces, used pieces work well (I picked up a used door seal in excellent shape locally for $100).

I replaced the cooling system shortly after buying the car, and the thing that impressed me is how well they're put together. I found the car to be very easy to work on, but they will generally require some new tools.

I'm actually considering putting my '97 328is up for sale in the near future. If you're interested (I'm in CT) let me know and I can send you some pics and details. It's a silver coupe with the 5spd, Sport Package, and factory rear spoiler with almost 127K.
July 18, 2011 5:41 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

Blitzed306 wrote:

mike wrote:

I'll say this: a 318TI with an automatic is a total dog if you have any elevation changes at all. Sucked ALL of the fun out of the car, bleah yuckie. Otherwise, the car still speaks to me (although the words sound like "please install S50/S52 and a six-speed, please").

This, My ex wifes 318i would get smoke by my buddies 3 speed auto Neon.... bad

Just one thing to remember.. you cannot compare the performance of the 318i and is with the Ti. The hatch is significantly lighter than the coupe and sedan. By several hundred pounds. The 318ti at full spec weigh in over 2700. The 318is coupe is almost 3000