E36 M3: How many miles is too many?: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

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Oct. 25, 2011 4:30 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

I'm going to be looking at a CL find this weekend. It's a '97 manual sedan with 158k, but apparently in very good shape. Recently replaced struts, brakes, water pump etc. On the phone, he says it's borderline immaculate- some minor scrapes on the paint, but no scratches, no dings, interior great, except wear (no tears) on the drivers seat. No leaks, everything works, no rust, 1 code: passenger seat occupancy sensor.

How many miles is too many? I think these guys can go well over 200k, but the last one I owned had 65k and was not an issue. Just interested in what you experts know as far as what I can look forward to. I sold my '95 a year ago, and sorta regret it. The four door is really what I 'need'.

My list of follow-on questions to ask:

-RTAB's replaced?
-FCAB's replaced?

I pretty much asked all the "buyers guide questions".

What else is there, really? As long as the engine runs fine, the a/c works.... I'll probably have it for two to three years until the wife gets a job, then re-sell. I'm thinking this is one of the few cars I might stand to not lose money on (and have a kickass cool car to drive in the meantime) if I treat it right.

What say you, GRM?
Oct. 25, 2011 4:59 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

most german cars can easily do over 200K miles if maintained. Also look into revamping the cooling system and engine/trans mounts.
Oct. 25, 2011 5:27 p.m. z31maniac SuperDork

The guy that sits next to me at work tracks the daylights out his E36 M3.

I think it's sitting at 206k miles on the original engine/trans/diff.
Oct. 25, 2011 5:29 p.m. 02Pilot Reader

Yeah, I don't start worrying about major mechanicals on modern BMWs until 250k at the earliest; 300k is probably more like it. That said, it's all the ancillary stuff that goes. Complete cooling system overhaul every 100k is a must, suspension about the same, and there's plenty of other stuff that may start acting up. You may find yourself doing a bunch of deferred maintenance, but as long as it hasn't been horribly neglected or money shifted, the mechanicals are the least of your worries.
Oct. 25, 2011 5:53 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

Cool- I'd agree that I should see some deferred maintenance, except that this guy seems to have taken care of most of the major stuff. He wants $6500 for it. I was thinking to offer about 6 assuming there is nothing glaring wrong.

Great to hear about the 200k track car. Jeebus.
Oct. 25, 2011 6:05 p.m. motomoron HalfDork

The mileage on my '98 coupe was 58k when I bought it 4-1/2 years ago, and mid-80s now, but the majority has been accrued to, from and on track. As it's set up now, it'll go pretty close to the times the NASA TTC/GTS2 cars are doing, session after session after session - and then drive home with the AC on listening to the stereo.

The engine uses little oil - after 10, 30 minute sessions over 2 days in near 100 degree heat it might take 6-8 ounces.

I've replaced every single bushing in the car, the cooling system, the power steering pump+reservoir+hoses, control arms, clutch, suspension, etc, etc.

But considering the reliability and willingness to be beaten on relentlessly, it's pretty amazing.

I'm not really using it anymore, having gone racing in a racing car. having a car that will do 1'17"s at Summit makes doing '27s seem s-l-o-w, and dealing with a roll bar, no back seat, 6 point harnesses and deep race seats, plus the insane NVH level is tiring.

The question is whether to take a bath selling it complete and sorted - I've got crazy money in it - or to soften it a little put the interior back in and keep it as a nut-job street car.
Oct. 28, 2011 12:05 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

So I went to check out the car today. It's in great shape- few minor things that are typical for E36's. Its really clean, great interior, exterior in far better shape than it has any right to be. Really nice, until I ask about any unseen accident damage: "well, it has a rebuilt title" (it took a bit more to draw that out of him, but it came out finally). It could also explain the hesitation to give me the VIN to do a CarFax check.

So how much does that change things? There was no way to tell it had ever been damaged, but we all know that the title drops value significantly. We agreed on $5600, but then there was a dispute about my taking it with the plates... (due to military domicile, I have to register in a different state and didn't want the car without plates- only until I got it registered, about 2 weeks). So I walked. The more I think about it, the more relieved I am.... it's a rare car, and would have been a good deal at $6500 with a clean title, but it ain't.

I'm sure he's going to call me back, as he hasn't gotten much other interest. What do you think? My instinct says to stay away, but am I being wrongly paranoid about the rebuilt title?
Oct. 28, 2011 12:09 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

Oh, and not that it means anything but I looked up the KBB, Edmunds, and NADA values:

KBB: Good: 5775; Very Good: 5925; Excellent: 6250; Retail: 7875

Edmunds: Very Good: 3359; Retail: 4522

NADA: Good: 3750; Very Good: 4750; Retail: 7350

Laughable, really- the sedans are worth quite a bit more, especially with a manual. I didn't use these as part of the bargaining.
Oct. 28, 2011 12:34 p.m. pigeon Dork

Depends on when and why it was rebuilt, but these aren't so rare that a rebuild title wouldn't likely make me walk, unless I was paying waaaaayyyyy under market. Acutally, I would have been all over that rebuilt title and all 6 months ago as a track car before I bought my E46 M3, since E36 M3s locally are generally priced in the low teens
Oct. 28, 2011 12:48 p.m. Tom_Spangler Reader

I'd skip one with a rebuilt title unless it was crazy cheap. Too much of a hassle to deal with when you go to sell it yourself. Yes, they are somewhat rare, but not crazy rare, especially if you're willing to travel and/or wait for the right one.

Bottom line, if it didn't feel right, you made the right choice in walking away.
Oct. 28, 2011 1:13 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

Was $5600 crazy cheap? I thought it was a "good" deal, but not crazy. And no, it wasn't going to be a track car. I can't afford that E36 M3 right now- mostly time-wise (8 and 4 year olds at home right now, so I'm on the 10 year plan before free weekends). I figure if this was a clean title, at 158k, it was worth $8k or so, and so I felt that the asking price of $6500 was a pretty good deal. That it is a rebuilt title, most of the "collector" (resale) value is lost.

Maybe I'm crazy, but that rebuilt title thing gave me the "uh-oh" feeling.
Oct. 28, 2011 1:24 p.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

Sounds like you made the right choice. If you were making it a track car that is one thing, but as a daily that you plan on trying to sell in a few years there are better choices.