Just curious here. Can I run E85 in my '96 Sentra? Will it dissolve my fuel system, or what? In my area, I just checked for prices and found from 2.35/ gal to 3.59/ gal. Interesting that the 2.35 price was at a turnpike service plaza, where gas prices are usually highest.
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May 9, 2011 11:11 a.m. cwh SuperDork
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May 9, 2011 11:12 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
Do you have something to retune the fuel/ignition maps with?
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May 9, 2011 11:17 a.m. cwh SuperDork
No, why? How much richer does the mixture need to be?
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May 9, 2011 11:18 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
Rich enough that you aren't doing it on stock injectors without a TON of fuel pressure.
30% seems to be the general rule of thumb.
Converting to E85 to save money doesn't make sense, unfortunately. You'll burn ~30% more of it, and have to spend the money first to be able to run it.
Really only makes sense from a power perspective.
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May 9, 2011 11:23 a.m. Jerry From LA HalfDork
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
Rich enough that you aren't doing it on stock injectors without a TON of fuel pressure.
30% seems to be the general rule of thumb.
Converting to E85 to save money doesn't make sense, unfortunately. You'll burn ~30% more of it, and have to spend the money first to be able to run it.
Really only makes sense from a power perspective.
Yup. Nice octane boost. Crappy mileage. Windfall for farmer.
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May 9, 2011 11:50 a.m. alfadriver SuperDork
cwh wrote:
No, why? How much richer does the mixture need to be?
gas- 14.7:1 E10- 13.9 :1 E85 9.someting:1.
Generally, cars are flex fuel in that they CAN run lambda of .75 with E85, and typically, it's fuel range capability that will prevent most cars from being flex fuel capable. I'm not really aware of any flex fuel cars that are tuned perfectly for E85 over gas- most are optimized better for E0 to E10.
Your fuel system will be ok, but not perfect- I'm sure there are some material capability issues. But it would work for a while. Can't be as sure about the rubber components as the steel, even though metals have issues, too....
energy wise, E85 is just under 70% that of gasoline. So gas mileage will suffer. Flex cars DO run spark closer to MBT, but they are not far enough away that 110 RON will be that great. Better, sure. Just not totally awesome, pie in the sky, 10 second GRM drag car kind of benefit.
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May 9, 2011 11:50 a.m. Ranger50 HalfDork
Using my MIL's '08 Impala as a comparison point, I get 24mpg on "straight" gas, 20-21mpg on E85. So, I see 20% reduction in mileage.
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May 9, 2011 12:19 p.m. mndsm SuperDork
Stuff's a lot of fun in FI applications, I know that.
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May 9, 2011 2:10 p.m. RossD SuperDork
I think the auto manufacturers should be building flex fuel cars with only turbos or superchargers. The perception of the fuel would different IMO.
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May 9, 2011 2:19 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
Rich enough that you aren't doing it on stock injectors without a TON of fuel pressure.
30% seems to be the general rule of thumb.
Converting to E85 to save money doesn't make sense, unfortunately. You'll burn ~30% more of it, and have to spend the money first to be able to run it.
Really only makes sense from a power perspective.
Not true. I have seen a Civic tuned for E85 on stock injectors and stock fuel pressure (no fuel system mods allowed by the rules) but it was pushing the limits of the injectors. The ECU was of course tuned for the E85.
As for the original question, not without tuning the ECU for the new fuel.
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May 9, 2011 2:27 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork
mndsm wrote:
Stuff's a lot of fun in FI applications, I know that.
True story.
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May 9, 2011 2:38 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork
Yup - 100-something octane is nice. IIRC MS can use a flex fuel sensor. Hmmmm.
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May 9, 2011 8:46 p.m. novaderrik HalfDork
try running about a half a tank of E85 with half a tank of regular before going to running it straight. my 2.2/5 speed 97 Cavalier ran just as good and got the same mileage with 50% E85 as it did with straight gas, but mileage would drop off as more than that was added. it would barely run on straight E85. i had the luxury of havign access to a "blender" pump that allowed you to select from 20%-85% ethanol blends, so it was easy to experiment.
the "30% more fuel" thing is just a guideline and not all cars will be the same- the best gas mileage my 84 Regal T Type ever got was on a tank of E85- it got 24mpg when it normally never gets over 17 with straight gas. that was a couple hundred miles of steady speeds on the interstate, but the AC was on full blast the whole time and i had 2 passengers and a trunk full of luggage..
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May 9, 2011 9:19 p.m. Graefin10 Reader
My DD is curently a 92 Ford Taurus w/a 3 liter V6. My mother bought it new in 92 and parked it. She gave it to me 2 years ago with 4,800 miles on it. It now has 19K. My question is can a car that was created in an era with no planning for ethanol useage be harmed by running E85? In general, it seems to be running OK although it does stumble a little if you get on the accelerator too fast. This would seem to go along with what was said earlier about it creating a lean condition. Non ethanol fuel is available where I live at a higher price. Your advice would be appreciated.
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May 10, 2011 7:44 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork
novaderrik wrote:
try running about a half a tank of E85 with half a tank of regular before going to running it straight. my 2.2/5 speed 97 Cavalier ran just as good and got the same mileage with 50% E85 as it did with straight gas, but mileage would drop off as more than that was added. it would barely run on straight E85. i had the luxury of havign access to a "blender" pump that allowed you to select from 20%-85% ethanol blends, so it was easy to experiment.
the "30% more fuel" thing is just a guideline and not all cars will be the same- the best gas mileage my 84 Regal T Type ever got was on a tank of E85- it got 24mpg when it normally never gets over 17 with straight gas. that was a couple hundred miles of steady speeds on the interstate, but the AC was on full blast the whole time and i had 2 passengers and a trunk full of luggage..
If you're not tuning for it, you're asking for trouble IMO. E85 on gas maps = lean, and lean = burned pistons.
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May 10, 2011 8:21 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
Finding the stuff is my problem....the Nearest E85 station around here is 60 miles away---too bad, as I could have retuned my ZX10R ecu to run the stuff pretty easily while it was at DPTune.
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May 10, 2011 8:24 a.m. John Brown SuperDork
Move to Michigan Per. We have three weeks of warm weather but all the E85 you can use.
