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I wouldn't personally care if one was reliable or not. I'd be looking for hilarious power in a smallish japanese awd car, and if E36 M3 breaks, oh well.
Cheap, fast, reliable, pick two.
This may be one of those cars that lets you pick two and a half.
petegossett wrote:My only comment is from when Eric Stemler used to autox one, and I was in line behind him at an event during a major downpour. I swear when he launched it was like a cartoon - the car just took off and all the water that had been on it just sat there hanging in the air momentarily, before dropping onto the ground!
That just brings on a hilarious mental image.
1st gens had really weak (as in rediculously easy to beat) steering pumps. Getting one through a slalom back in the day was a real pain. A little junkyard engineering should fix that, though.
The only problem I have with them is that they were made ove in Bloomington illinois, about an hour from where I live, so they are everywhere. They are capable cars, too bad most of them are in the ownership of Fanboys and wanna bes (neither of wich are you)
find one that is not riced out and have a good time.
jstein77 wrote:1st gens had really weak (as in rediculously easy to beat) steering pumps. Getting one through a slalom back in the day was a real pain. A little junkyard engineering should fix that, though.
The problem isn't that the steering pump itself is weak -- from the vfaq:
Speed sensitive steering is a feature available on many different cars. Its job is to give the car a more stable and heavy feel at highway speeds, and to make the car less prone to sudden changes in steering angle at speeds where such a move would be dangerous. It also allows more steering assist at low speeds for parking maneuvers.
Speed sensitive steering is great, but that's not what our 2L (Turbo&NA) DSMs are equipped with. We have RPM sensitive steering, which acts somewhat the same. It will decrease the steering boost at highway speeds because the engine is turning 3500-4000 RPM, but unfortunately it severely cuts the steering boost in the upper-rev range, regardless of what gear the car is in. 6000 RPM through an auto-x slalom results in minimal steering assist, followed by a sudden lack of any assist. Not exactly what an auto-x driver is looking for.
The solution is straightforward:
In reply to EricM:
The problem is with these cars is that they easily make big power with bolt ons and usually get in the wrong hands as stated before. Our 2004 GRM challenge Talon was by far the funnest of our challenge cars. Drag launches are like cheating until you find out the 1st- 2nd shift sucks. The car also worked great on the road course that year because of its launch and the power could be put to use. Although I never found these cars to be great handlers(understeer and heavy). The motors are legendary and junkyard cheap, while the rest of the car is not much to write home about. Internet information about these cars is endless and very useful also.
westsidetalon wrote:Drag launches are like cheating until you find out the 1st- 2nd shift sucks. The car also worked great on the road course that year because of its launch and the power could be put to use. Although I never found these cars to be great handlers(understeer and heavy). The motors are legendary and junkyard cheap, while the rest of the car is not much to write home about. Internet information about these cars is endless and very useful also.
My thoughts exactly. It's a shame Mitsu never made a 4g63 powered RWD car or a good RWD transmission to use with the motor (other than hacking a starion or might max unit) for swaps :(
IVe only owned an Avenger so i cant comment from the ownership perspective other than the interior and suspension which are all 2g dsm stuff.
I think they are great platforms. You better be your own mechanic and not an idiot, though. As mentioned, thats 90% of the problem right there.
I didnt notice that anyone has mentioned it, so if you get a 2g dsm, keep an eye on your front lower ball joints. They fail often compared to other cars, and they might still be under 0$ recall. Yes, they failed often enough to recall.
I miss it
m4ff3w wrote:
Admittedly, I know little about them, I'm just spreading FUD.
This is classic! hahaha
I'm resurrecting this thread because I am about to pull the trigger on a 1st gen eclipse gsx...
I have read the threads and buyers guide so I think I know the strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I do love me some all wheel drive turbo and am looking for a solid platform with good aftermarket support.
So, do we all still pretty much like these cars for general auto-x/track day/hill climb/drags/rally-x/tsd and occasionally running errands? How much is too much to pay these days for a nice example with a complete top end job and mild mods?
I wouldn't personally be real psyched about autocrossing one, but i wouldn't be crying about it, at least. Everything else, YES.
I'm not sure what the going rate is on these things now... it seems to vary wildly by area. I know the last time i looked (about 2 years ago) i could find fairly clean 1st gens for around $2k. I'd say $2k-$4k would be fair for your example, going off the limited information. More details and pics would help nail down a better number, though. 
Personally, I've seen them go upwards of 5k in the midwest and people will pay it, for a clean not messed up 1g. YMMV. As far as fun? I haven't had any more fun than I've had in a DSM. EVER.
I had one when they were new. I liked it but it was like a high maintenance woman that needs a lot of attention. Eventually you'll get fed up and want to dump her. Just make sure you replace the camshaft belts as required.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I wouldn't personally be real psyched about autocrossing one, but i wouldn't be crying about it, at least. Everything else, YES.
I'm not sure what the going rate is on these things now... it seems to vary wildly by area. I know the last time i looked (about 2 years ago) i could find fairly clean 1st gens for around $2k. I'd say $2k-$4k would be fair for your example, going off the limited information. More details and pics would help nail down a better number, though.
I'm familiar with the auto-x issues, and do not really plan on being competitive, even locally.
The ad just got taken offline and I dont have pics but:
the body is fair, needs paint on hood and spoiler and has all the dents of a 20 year old car. Interior is not mint but pretty nice and comfy.
mechically sound. The guy races them and rebuilds them for sale when the previous owner doesnt replace the timing belt in time and the valves meet the pistons... so new valves, belts and gaskets up top. ABS is inop and A/C leaks. new rebuilt 16g turbo set to 16psi. New all season and brakes.
I can settle on details and get it well under $3k... I guess I should...
TR8owner wrote:I had one when they were new. I liked it but it was like a high maintenance woman that needs a lot of attention. Eventually you'll get fed up and want to dump her. Just make sure you replace the camshaft belts as required.
Part of the attraction is the recent and professional rebuild on the head and related bits.
I am not afraid of high maintenance, but appreciate the warning.
We campaign a NA 97 Talon in Lemons. They're great! It's only blown up 2 out of the last 3 races. Don't know what all the fuss is about.
Major oiling problems on right hand sweepers on a road course in my experience, even with cheaty bits.
Tyler H wrote:We campaign a NA 97 Talon in Lemons. They're great! It's only blown up 2 out of the last 3 races. Don't know what all the fuss is about.
Major oiling problems on right hand sweepers on a road course in my experience, even with cheaty bits.
That sounds like a great Lemons car, fun when it runs and crappy enough to keep you busy off the track 
Thanks for sharing the experience about oiling. I am thinking about an accusump and looking into aftermarket oil pans before I engage in anything too spirited.
Unless you put a dry sump on it, I'm not sure if you can fix it with an oil pan. BTDT.
The car is easy to work on and handles pretty good. We put 3000gt brakes on the front. $40 from pull a part and they bolt right up.
Tyler H wrote:We campaign a NA 97 Talon in Lemons. They're great! It's only blown up 2 out of the last 3 races. Don't know what all the fuss is about.
Major oiling problems on right hand sweepers on a road course in my experience, even with cheaty bits.
You poppin' headgaskets in that? IIRC, that should be a 420a, and that would explain a lot to me. That motor was never meant to tote around a car that heavy.
I owned a 1g AWD for a while with a minor turbo and supporting upgrades. It was stupid fast and fun! Give it a try!
mndsm wrote:You poppin' headgaskets in that? IIRC, that should be a 420a, and that would explain a lot to me. That motor was never meant to tote around a car that heavy.
The 420a seems plenty strong for the car to me? HG is fine, it's having bottom end issues due to insufficient oiling in right hand turns. Other than that issue, it seems like a great platform to me. I never had any DSM interest or experience otherwise, so no preconceived notions.
I just always heard bad things about em from the Neon crowd.... Plus i'll admit, I'm an engine snob.
Well, it's probably one of the finest engines to come out of Normal, IL.
mndsm wrote:I just always heard bad things about em from the Neon crowd.... Plus i'll admit, I'm an engine snob.
(Puts on flak jacket)
I actually LIKE 420As...
I do too....except for the oil starvation. If you just turn left, they may be viable. 
