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  June 23, 2010 9:42 p.m. integraguy HalfDork

  Yeah, once again I think I may have found THE next "new to me" vehicle: a '99 Ranger regular cab with 4WD and if it makes a difference, automatic transmission. However, I am a stranger to 4WD and want to make sure it has a working "system" before I shell out the extra bucks for it. I will be having a professional mechanic check out this or any other similar vehicle (if this one doesn't pan out) but what I want to know is how does someone check out the 4wd capabilites of a vehicle with "part time" 4WD? Also, of the "Big 3" (plus Nissan) who has the better 4WD small/medium sized truck?

  I've also found an older ('94) Mazda/Ranger regular cab with manual transmission and manually selected 4WD....this truck will see 4wd use in slippery conditions ON ROAD or snowy conditions in the winter.

  I'm leaning towards the older/manually selected 4wd system in the Mazda. Any advice?

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  June 23, 2010 10:07 p.m. novaderrik Reader

  unless the seller has a mud pit on his property, about the only thing you can do is put it in 4wd, lock the hubs (if not automatic) and drive it around a little bit.

  if the 4wd works, then you will somewhat be able to tell if it works but making tight turns- the front end will kind of feel like it's "skipping" a little bit while in 4wd. if you can do this in gravel or dirt, it will be pretty obvious.

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  June 23, 2010 11:26 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  The manual system is less likely to break.

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  June 24, 2010 12:41 a.m. thatsnowinnebago Dork

  I would probably pick Nissan over the Big Three's offerings in the compact truck segment. That said, my dad has a 2005 4x4 Ranger and I do like his truck. Also, I personally don't trust anything but a good old fashioned manual shifter for my transfer case. Something about trusting an electric motor underneath my truck makes me nervous.

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  June 24, 2010 6:47 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

  I think you're going to find they all are reall 4x4, not part time or awd assist things or such. That's for cars. Be they lever operated or dashboard push button (which simply uses a solenoid to throw the lever).

  To test, engage the 4x4, and turn sharply in the driveway or parking lot. The vehicle will buck and bind within 10 feet. It's very obvious! Nothing subtle about it. If it drives in circles like a car, 4wd is not engaged.

  By "big three" I take it you're considering the Ford Ranger, the Chevy S10 and the Dodge Dakota? Not much personal experience with them, but I have observed that the Ford Ranger owners tend to love their trucks and hang onto them forever. S10 people are pretty quiet. Dakota folk seem happiest when they sell their Dakota.
  

  Any particular reason Toyota is not being considered? For in the world of compact trucks, they are pretty much the king, and have been for a whole lot of years.

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  June 24, 2010 8:57 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  foxtrapper wrote:

  I think you're going to find they all are reall 4x4, not part time or awd assist things or such. That's for cars. Be they lever operated or dashboard push button (which simply uses a solenoid to throw the lever).

  To test, engage the 4x4, and turn sharply in the driveway or parking lot. The vehicle will buck and bind within 10 feet. It's very obvious! Nothing subtle about it. If it drives in circles like a car, 4wd is not engaged.

  By "big three" I take it you're considering the Ford Ranger, the Chevy S10 and the Dodge Dakota? Not much personal experience with them, but I have observed that the Ford Ranger owners tend to love their trucks and hang onto them forever. S10 people are pretty quiet. Dakota folk seem happiest when they sell their Dakota.
  

  Any particular reason Toyota is not being considered? For in the world of compact trucks, they are pretty much the king, and have been for a whole lot of years.

  FYI, they refer to the real transfer case in Jeeps as part time 4WD, since it has to be shifted into it, and the TC with a diff like a subaru as full time AWD (never in a Wrangler, but some GC's got this).

  The part time is far superior, even though the marketing lingo would seem to indicate the opposite.

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  June 24, 2010 9:08 a.m. integraguy HalfDork

  Yeah, my assumption was that "part time" was the term used when the 4WD feature can be turned on and off....though it is a confusing way to think about it.

  I had considered a Wrangler and any Subaru Legacy or Impreza....but those choices seem to be on the more expensive side. Tho I understand you are paying a higher price for a better/more capable vehicle.

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  June 24, 2010 12:29 p.m. 93gsxturbo Reader

  Engnage 4x4, back into a gravel driveway, and stand on it. Tires spin = 4WD doesnt work.

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  June 24, 2010 12:52 p.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

  Jeep lives in its own word of confusion, with quadratrac and all sorts of other 4x4 variations that baffle me.
  

  But, all the trucks, as far as I know, use a transfer case, with no center differential. So you're in rear wheel drive mode normally, and when you throw the lever or push a button, the transfer case locks the front driveshaft in, and you're in 4x4 mode.
  

  I'm really not sure that applies to all Jeeps. Though afaik, all old Jeep trucks did use a transfer case.

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  June 24, 2010 7:18 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

  novaderrik wrote:

  if the 4wd works, then you will somewhat be able to tell if it works but making tight turns- the front end will kind of feel like it's "skipping" a little bit while in 4wd. if you can do this in gravel or dirt, it will be pretty obvious.

  NEVER DO THIS... this is quite frankly the fastest way to break an axleshaft in a 4x4 vehicle.
  

  A guy came and did this to a ranger I had for sale... I stopped the test drive and told him to GTFO.

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  June 24, 2010 7:42 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

  98-99 ranger will have pulse vac disconnect hubs. They work OK... If the 4x4 dosen't work, it's most likely these crap ass hubs that have broken. I had one a 98 ranger for 5 years, so I can tell you a bit about these.
  

  1. The 3rd tail light will leak and leave water stains on the headliner. Seal it silicone
  2. The much maligned dial for 4x4 works great
  3. If there is some slop in the front end when driving, like a small clunk when going over bumps, this is the end links for the sway bar that are worn out...
  4. Check the trans out well, In the 120k-150k mile range they poop. They all poop.

  The later ranger will have an A-arm IFS. The earlier one will have the TTB. The TTB will be "stronger" but will ride like crap. My 98 ranger did 158k miles with no real problems. If it got better mileage I would have fixed the trans and keep going.

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  June 24, 2010 7:44 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

  DILYSI Dave wrote:

  The manual system is less likely to break.

  I did 158k miles on my ranger with no problems with the "more prone to breakage" electronic system. I owned it for 5 years and it was the trans that broke not the 4x4 system. I also used that truck fairly hard for the 1st few years.

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  June 24, 2010 7:47 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  foxtrapper wrote:

  Jeep lives in its own word of confusion, with quadratrac and all sorts of other 4x4 variations that baffle me.
  

  But, all the trucks, as far as I know, use a transfer case, with no center differential. So you're in rear wheel drive mode normally, and when you throw the lever or push a button, the transfer case locks the front driveshaft in, and you're in 4x4 mode.
  

  I'm really not sure that applies to all Jeeps. Though afaik, all old Jeep trucks did use a transfer case.

  They all use a transfer case, but the part time is real 4x4 and the full time uses a center diff.

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  June 25, 2010 5:43 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

  http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/

  Rock-trac, Command-trac, Quadra-trac, Quadra-drive, Select-trac, etc.
  

  Good lord, how many types of 4x4 can Jeep come up with!? And that link is just on the 9 types of 4x4 Jeep makes today. That's not a list of all the types they've made over the years. God only knows how long that list would be.

  That's why I'm never willing to speak with certainty about Jeep 4x4's and what they use.

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  June 25, 2010 8:04 a.m. pilotbraden New Reader

  Manual hubs are much stronger/longer lasting than the automatic hubs. The local mudders tell me that the auto hubs disengage in reverse, therefore resulting in broken hubs/axles when rocking to and fro to get out of a mud hole. I have manual locking hubs on both of my 4x4 pickups. In 11 years I have replaced 1 on the F-100 with a 390 ci, 4spd that is used off road regularly.

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  June 25, 2010 9:25 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  foxtrapper wrote:

  http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/

  Rock-trac, Command-trac, Quadra-trac, Quadra-drive, Select-trac, etc.
  

  Good lord, how many types of 4x4 can Jeep come up with!? And that link is just on the 9 types of 4x4 Jeep makes today. That's not a list of all the types they've made over the years. God only knows how long that list would be.

  That's why I'm never willing to speak with certainty about Jeep 4x4's and what they use.

  Yeah, the marketing department is all berkeleyed up. I have no idea what the different names mean. There's real 4x4 with a 2.72:1 low range, real 4x4 with a 4:1 low range, which has a different name, full time AWD with LSD's in various places some of which may or may not have low range, all justifying different names, etc. Tis retarded.

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  June 25, 2010 10:01 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

  Front hubs and such. I know of three variations.

  1. Manual Hub Where you go outside and rotate a knob at each wheel to engage the hub, locking the wheel to the shaft. In the unlocked mode, the hub and wheel spin freely from the shaft, reducing drag. At least theoretically.
     

  I've had these, and in fact put it on my current 4x4. But when I'm stuck in a mud hole, the last thing I want to do is get out of the truck and slog around locking hubs. My current truck has ADD (more on that later), and the manual hubs made no difference in gas mileage. So I just leave them locked.

  1. Automatic hub Works like a manual hub, but automatically. If it works right, they aren't bad, theoretically. Everyone seems to revile them for their ability to not work right and to break. And even working right, they require wheel spin to engage. No personal experience.

  2. Automatic Driveshaft Disengagement (ADD), or some variant This is often confused with automatic hubs. It is very different! This is coupler on the front wheel axle that slides back and forth on splines to engage or disengage the front wheels. The wheels are rigidly bolted to the flange, and that is rigidly joined to the axle. One or both of the front axles is cut in half, and this coupler slips up and down, locking or unlocking the front axle halfs together.

  Convenient because it's dashboard operated. You don't go locking and unlocking hubs outside. Surprisingly little gas mileage difference compared to unlocked hubs. Its weakness is the vacuum actuation. Lines get ripped off or holed, then it won't work. Though it can be manually pried into position. I personally like it and far prefer it over manual hubs.

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  June 25, 2010 11:44 a.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  In reply to foxtrapper:

  i assume you're talking about the toyota ADD system? i think its now operated via an electric motor. even still, there have been failures.

  then there is also the nissan way: no hubs to disconnect, front axle and shafts are hooked up all the time, when you select 4x4, it shifts in the transfer case and is done. no hubs to break or malfunction, and no getting out in the mud to engage hubs.
  

  also, the engage and turn on pavement method for testing whether or not the 4x4 engages is fine, but all you need to do is roll forward a bit and turn, the binding will stop the truck like you hit the brakes. back up and disengage 4x4, and you're less likely to piss off a sensitive seller.

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  June 25, 2010 12:23 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  The YJ has the ADD (Jeep calls it CAD, but same thing). When they went to TJ, Jeep just quit bothering with disconnecting anything. Hubs, diff, drive shaft, etc. are all always moving. Shift the TC to 4WD and you're done.

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