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Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
3/1/11 8:30 a.m.

This is the coolest contest ever! Thank you GRM and FF!

DaveSmith
DaveSmith
3/1/11 8:42 a.m.

Thanks to Tim and the staff at GRM for hosting this contest. You guys were selected (the GRM community) because the focus of the car is performance and value and the GRM community has a tremendous depth in racing experience and the subaru contingent is mighty strong here as well.

That drawing IS an early chassis CAD file, however it has evolved a bit since then. The subaru running gear has been scanned and the suspension, drivetrain, steering has been designed. The engineers are working on the "go kart" right now and we will have driving data before the body is done. Once the contest is over and we announce winners, we will decide on the final shape (we may use all of, part of, or simply inspiration from the winners and submissions) and go rapidly to body shaping and molds, which will be made quickly due to our relationship with Solidworks and their 3-D support of this project.

Good luck to all you guys. We MAY release chassis drawings, but the engineering team is concerned (for good reason) that we may want to make changes and we don't want to slow down the team with customer scrutiny and feedback on a design that is undergoing testing. I think I can speak from a position of strength in saying that Factory Five's are known for their chassis design and so lets focus on a fun shape that will prove that a small company, with support from a hard-core racing/performance car community and creativity can do what big companies are unable to do!

Thanks to GRM and everyone for their ideas, support, and enthusiasm!

Dave Smith President Factory Five Racing

Tim Suddard
Tim Suddard Publisher
3/1/11 9:01 a.m.

What Dave Smith said!

poopshovel
poopshovel SuperDork
3/1/11 9:09 a.m.

Can't wait to get home and get drawing!

bluej
bluej HalfDork
3/1/11 9:34 a.m.

can we assume the body construction will be the same as the other FF kits (vinylester)?

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
3/1/11 10:08 a.m.

Very excited. Can't wait.

DaveSmith
DaveSmith New Reader
3/1/11 10:46 a.m.

That's a beautiful shape Fuoriserie.

The answer to the body construction question is that it is most likely going to be a fiberglass body, however, the last five years have seen dramatic price reductions in hydro-formed metal and at this point, we don't want to rule any process out.

Dave Smith

sachilles
sachilles Dork
3/1/11 11:07 a.m.

I just made the realization that I am not a very good artist.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
3/1/11 11:12 a.m.
sachilles wrote: I just made the realization that I am not a very good artist.

Ditto.

I know what i want it to look like, i'm just incapable of making that shape take form through any medium.

EricM
EricM Dork
3/1/11 11:13 a.m.

I swear I have had this idea in my head for two decades. I will get something whipped up.

sachilles
sachilles Dork
3/1/11 11:21 a.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
sachilles wrote: I just made the realization that I am not a very good artist.

Ditto.

I know what i want it to look like, i'm just incapable of making that shape take form through any medium.

Yup, same here. Hell, I'll even say it in hopes someone else will make it come to life. I'm thinking if a fiat x 1/9 mated with a 2000 subaru 2.5rs. x 1/9 in general shape. Targa roof. WRC style scoop above the rear pillar to feed the "top" mounted intercooler. Lower front bumper from the subie RS, and fender flares from the 22B.

fuoriserie
fuoriserie New Reader
3/1/11 11:57 a.m.

In reply to DaveSmith:

Thank you Dave...., I'm looking forward to sending the final design soon.

It would help me and I'm sure also the others if we had a sideview of the chassis drawing with the engine in place, so that we can place the correctly the side air intakes .

Thanks again,

Italo

sachilles
sachilles Dork
3/1/11 12:06 p.m.

Don't forget to get air to the intercooler.

peter
peter Reader
3/1/11 12:06 p.m.
fuoriserie wrote: It would help me and I'm sure also the others if we had a sideview of the chassis drawing with the engine in place, so that we can place the correctly the side air intakes .

If you look on the previous page of this thread, I outlined some engine dimensions that you can use to roughly locate the engine in relation to the rear wheels. That's probably enough to go on for now.

As per Dave's post here - we're not designing the final body, we're providing designs that they can work from to determine the final body. So less emphasis on perfectly aligned everything, more emphasis on a shape/style that will be awesome.

Totally stoked and starting to appreciate the freedom we have from the lack of constraints. If I didn't have to earn a living, I'd be at home molding some clay!

seansverige
seansverige
3/1/11 12:09 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: I'd argue that only having to work within the basic dimensions (wheelbase, ride height, track width, mid-engine configuration, etc.) provided leaves you a lot more room for creative design. ...Relax and draw the shape, don't try to create every nut and bolt... Requiring entries to meet engineering data points will restrict that....

I'd argue that denying us even the most basic information about a chassis that is "mostly complete" is more likely to generate a whole host of irrelevant submissions, or proposals that need substantial revision to make them compatible with the engineering design. Existing mechanicals are being used, so that's hardly confidential, but even if the chassis is top secret that doesn't preclude showing basic minimum information.

On the assumption that the Impreza drivetrain is having the propshaft blanked off to turn it into a mid rear setup (as per SDR Storm), show the outline of the mechanical package. A rollover hoop is shown on the chassis drawing, why isn't that shown on the template? It would help indicate cabin outline, which could also be shown, as could scuttle position. Is the radiator position finalised - we don't need to know in great detail, but front vs. rear mount has direct relevance to the styling (i.e. where to put the holes)

Frankly if working with these simple constraints is too much of a challenge, then maybe you're not cut out to be a designer, 'cos this is still waaay more freedom you'd be liable to encounter in the real world.

No matter how good the quality of entries are, translating that into reality is no easy task - but failing to define what I would term as the most basic details seems a sure way to make that task as difficult as possible. Were it not for the serious prize money being offered, the paucity of information provided might make a cynic this is nothing more than a publicity stunt.

To help get things rolling, attached is a r--d&tr--k style profile of the current Impreza, with drivetrain blocked in. Free Photo Sharing by ThumbSnap

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
3/1/11 12:29 p.m.

jeez,

Happy shiny first post.

PS122
PS122 Reader
3/1/11 12:33 p.m.

I'm no artist so I suggest this: Porsche-Cooper AKA "the Pooper"

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
3/1/11 12:33 p.m.

In reply to seansverige:

Welcome to the neighborhood, and thanks for your interest in the contest.

Luckily, entrants won't have to do the work of translating their design into the production body, so let's allow the Factory Five engineers to do the heavy lifting. Draw a shape that fits the criteria set forth on the contest page and you might win. If a cooling duct or intercooler scoop has to move two inches to mate with the chassis, so be it.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
3/1/11 12:40 p.m.
PS122 wrote: I'm no artist so I suggest this: Porsche-Cooper AKA "the Pooper"

There was a book i read a decade or so ago where a joke was made that was exactly like that. Porsche-Cooper = Pooper.

The main character responded back (they were running a chevy-cooper as a sprint car) that they would call theirs "The Chopper."

I'm drawing a blank.

Cooluser23
Cooluser23
3/1/11 12:41 p.m.

Don't forget the Factory Five forum itself: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/forum.php

quite a few people have already posted design ideas, or famous car designs, which could serve as inspiration for the future design.

Cooluser23
Cooluser23 New Reader
3/1/11 12:42 p.m.

IMHO, the design should look futuristic, rather than retro. Mostly because other Factory Five kits have a decidedly "retro" feel. This would be our opportunity to design something different that could appeal to a different audience and broaden the market.

Cooluser23
Cooluser23 New Reader
3/1/11 12:56 p.m.
seansverige wrote: To help get things rolling, attached is a r--d&tr--k style profile of the current Impreza, with drivetrain blocked in. Free Photo Sharing by ThumbSnap

Taken off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Impreza

Wheelbase 103.1 in (2620 mm) Length sedan: 180.3 in (4580 mm) hatchback: 173.8 in (4415 mm) Width 68.5 in (1740 mm) Height 58.1 in (1475 mm) Outback Sport: 58.3 in (1481 mm)

these measurements plugged into seansverige's illustration, could help us derive all the measurements we need to make a good scale version of this drivetrain. Then we can use those measurements, together with the ones provided by Factory Five to have some accuracy in our preliminary sketches.

Here's a bit of info for engine dimensions: http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/everyday-impreza-talk/152615-modeling-boxer-engine-solidworks.html

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
3/1/11 1:14 p.m.

Congratulations to our very first official entrant, Kirk Jensen. (I'll leave it up to Kirk if he wants to share with the rest of the group, but I some of the elements a lot!)

seansverige
seansverige New Reader
3/1/11 1:19 p.m.

In reply to Tom Heath: Apologies if I was blunt, but it was an expression of my disappointment. Having seen this competition trailed some weeks ago, I expected a little more from the design template (a grandiose name for what's been outlined thus far) - especially given what has been stated.

As is, we have constraints, just poorly defined: the chassis is almost finalised, it's mid engined using a unit not originally designed in that configuration.

There's a sizable middle ground between what's been provided and the full engineering detail; some more detail might help ensure that the minimum is lost in the translation to production.

peter
peter Reader
3/1/11 1:26 p.m.

Elsewhere, or maybe here, it's come out that the chassis is NOT finalized, and tweaks could be made to accommodate a winning design.

So yes, there is a middle ground between what's been provided and full engineering detail, and that is because both the chassis and body designs may slide a bit to cover that ground.

Relax, show the judges your ideas, let the production guys worry about the translation.

And for the people wanting to know engine/cockpit placement stuff, go back a few pages to one of my posts, there are some rough but solid measurements there. Basically wheel-center to front pulley, which is about all you'll need.

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