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DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
12/1/09 11:18 a.m.

I just caught wind of this 10 minutes ago, i guess they are taking a MK4 Jetta TDI, chopping the rear off, making some sort of rear subframe, throwing the TDI in the back and making some kind of Turbo Diesel Little Supercar out of it, heard the kit would be like $10-20k, looks awesome!!!

http://blog.cardomain.com/2009/11/25/factory-5-does-diesel-tdi-style/

rjones33
rjones33 New Reader
12/1/09 11:23 a.m.

secks!

RossD
RossD HalfDork
12/1/09 12:00 p.m.

I like it.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
12/1/09 12:26 p.m.

That's just their GTM with a TDI engine and transaxle mounted out back. Not earth shattering engineering by any means (Fiat, Toyota, Pontiac and Lotus have all built mid-engined cars like this) Still the work to get the TDI electronics to work can be more challenging.

After digging a little deeper, it really does sound like they are going the hard route by hacking up a Jetta to make it work. Why not design a new body and frame around the VW mechanicals?

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
12/1/09 12:30 p.m.
turboswede wrote: After digging a little deeper, it really does sound like they are going the hard route by hacking up a Jetta to make it work. Why not design a new body and frame around the VW mechanicals?

I dunno, i mean you can pick up a Mk4 Jetta pretty cheap, but a TDI is a whole nother story, they are still fetching $6,000 used! The concept looks like the GTM that has been photoshopped, but still looks good...

Carson
Carson Dork
12/1/09 12:39 p.m.

I think they need to build one with 6 more cylinders around the TDI V10.

I heard they were selling for $6,600 a couple weeks ago.

dyintorace
dyintorace Dork
12/1/09 12:39 p.m.
DukeOfUndersteer wrote: It looks like the GTM that has been photoshopped, but still looks good...

I'd go so far as to say the concept photo accompanying the TDI blurb looks worlds better than their GTM car. While the performance of the GTM car appeals to me, the looks never have. The concept photo, even if just a massaged GTM looks beautiful!

Duke
Duke SuperDork
12/1/09 12:42 p.m.

You know, I do believe this concept came from a car built by a vo-tech instructor and his class in the Philadelphia area. In the fall of '07 I was at a Philly region autocross and a yellow midengine car looking an awful lot like that and coincidentally powered by a Jetta TDI showed up.

njansenv
njansenv Reader
12/1/09 1:03 p.m.

Earthshattering engineering? Perhaps not: neither was the FFR Cobra. That said, the FF guys take the idea, develop it really well, and do a good job supporting the masses. I love the idea, and believe if anyone can make it work, the FF guys likely can.

Nathan

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
12/1/09 1:07 p.m.

I think it is an awesome idea. I would be interested in following it if it were real.

Think about the can of whoopass a built 1.8T would open up in this situation.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn SuperDork
12/1/09 1:09 p.m.
turboswede wrote: That's just their GTM with a TDI engine and transaxle mounted out back.

The roofline looks the same but the front and rear overhangs appear to be shorter on this car.

Edit: I did a google image search, and it looks like the photo above was actually photoshopped from a side view of the GTM.

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
12/1/09 1:12 p.m.
John Brown wrote: I think it is an awesome idea. I would be interested in following it if it were real. Think about the can of whoopass a built 1.8T would open up in this situation.

thats what im thinking, either a BIG TURBO 1.8 or a VR6...

dj06482
dj06482 Reader
12/1/09 1:29 p.m.

Here's the thread on ffcobra.com:

http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220382

nderwater
nderwater Reader
12/1/09 1:30 p.m.

The MkIV Jetta TDi I had was a very practical commuter, but I never liked the car's driving dynamics or (particularly) its drivetrain character. I've heard good things about the latest TDi powerplants, but I'd take a lot of convincing before I'd invest the time and money in building a TDi kit car. Heck, I'd be much more interested in building an electric kit car.

Ian F
Ian F HalfDork
12/1/09 1:31 p.m.

I stumbled on to this last week over on TDIClub. The whole idea is the pet project of the founder of FFR. His DD is a TDI wagon he runs on bioD and had the inkling to develop a high MPG mid-engine car using the Lotus creed (less is more), but building the car so as it could realistically work as a DD.

The pic is a photochopped GTM. The actual body design style is still up in the air for debate... thoughts of a 904/Dino look have also been floating around.

While his prototype car will be based on a TDI (he already has an ebay sourced car that he's started taking apart), the final kits would be designed to take any MkIV engine, 1.8T, VR6 or even a 2.slow if so desired...

His intent is to use as much of the MkIV - particularly the floor pan and dash board (and thus the VW VIN), basically so the car could be registered as a reconstructed VW (state laws will obviously vary...).

He's hoping to have the final car weight at around 2000 lbs and the kit price at around $10K. The weight I can see happening... but given the price of a Cobra kit and the additional content required for a DD, I'm not sure about the price.

I've been pressing him to have something to show at the Carlisle import & kit car show in 2010.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
12/1/09 1:40 p.m.

Tim, Margie.. I know you kids aren't into Beta testing anything but I REALLY think you kids getting together with Mr Smith, Judge John and a certain Jetta driving multi venue racing champion to make a year long project that ends up as a showpiece magazine feature.

kreb
kreb Dork
12/1/09 1:59 p.m.

You know, I'm no FF fanboi, but have to give serious kudos to those guys. They're a legitimate low-volume, risk taking, profitable car company who makes great vehicles and doesn't suck at the public teat. On this continent can anyone else say that?

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
12/1/09 3:02 p.m.

Using the floor pan and the dash would screw the pooch for me personally. I would rather see a "Special Construction" tub using a MKIV drivetrain out back and a Miata suspension up front. Making it look like and early Dino would be secks but I actually like the idea of it looking like a Lamborghini P400 Jota ;)

When compares to the Dino the Jota is awesome:

Ian F
Ian F HalfDork
12/1/09 3:16 p.m.
John Brown wrote: Using the floor pan and the dash would screw the pooch for me personally. I would rather see a "Special Construction" tub using a MKIV drivetrain out back and a Miata suspension up front. Making it look like and early Dino would be secks but I actually like the idea of it looking like a Lamborghini P400 Jota ;)

I don't disagree, but the idea is for it to be a single-donor kit... sort of like how an old Fox Mustang begets a Cobra...

The big technical problem with not using the MkIV dash is the ECU is more or less "linked" to many of those sub-systems... and while that can be worked around, it get's expensive and tedious. A friend of mine installed a VR6 in a Fiero but wanted to use the GM dash and column... he had to go through a lot of hassle to get the ECU to work correctly without the VW key. He was able to make it work, but he literally does this kind of thing for a living and has resources the average home-based kit-builder does not (like a fully equipped professional Euro-car repair shop, for instance).

Regardless, it should be interesting to see how he gets around this as well as more mundane issues... I wonder if he's pulled his hair out yet dissecting the wiring harness...

dyintorace
dyintorace Dork
12/1/09 3:24 p.m.
kreb wrote: You know, I'm no FF fanboi, but have to give serious kudos to those guys. They're a legitimate low-volume, risk taking, profitable car company who makes great vehicles and doesn't suck at the public teat. On this continent can anyone else say that?

I couldn't agree more. From talking with folks who've built FF Cobras, the products are top notch as is the customer support. Add to that the Challenge Racing Series (credit to Tim Suddard from what I read) and it really is an incredible company/business model.

John Brown
John Brown SuperDork
12/1/09 3:36 p.m.

I would use a Jetta or Beetle dash as well as column but the A pillar/windshield will not work really well.

From CARS

Rufledt
Rufledt Reader
12/1/09 3:36 p.m.

a mid engined, affordable car that looks like that, is light weight, torquey, and has amazing fuel economy? why the crap wouldn't they build one? i want one already. especially if it looks like that. i'm not the biggest GTM looks fan, but that is awesome!

Rufledt
Rufledt Reader
12/1/09 3:38 p.m.
John Brown wrote: From CARS

YES

DukeOfUndersteer
DukeOfUndersteer Dork
12/1/09 3:46 p.m.

In reply to John Brown:

from what i have heard, they are thinking about using a Z4 windshield...

Ian F
Ian F HalfDork
12/1/09 3:51 p.m.
John Brown wrote: I would use a Jetta or Beetle dash as well as column but the A pillar/windshield will not work really well.

Not disagreeing... not at all... the problem with that picture is it really starts add up the parts-bin list... and how much are we willing to pay for this kit? I'm looking at all of that and seriously wondering how it could be brought in at the hoped for $10K price point... which itself is not an insubstantial figure.

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