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  • integraguy

    Jan. 24, 2010 11:54 p.m. integraguy HalfDork

    I was reading a column in the latest issue of the British mag EVO where the columnist said that Ferrari will no longer offer cars (I'm assuming "road cars") with the traditional manual transmission. Instead, all Ferraris will henceforth be built with some type of "automanual" transmission selection. Since I will never own or drive a Ferrari, I don't really keep abreast of the make, and for all I know they may have already stopped producing cars with manual transmissions.

    Apparently, no buyers are interested in owning a "true" sports car, so Ferrari is giving in to customer/sales demand. Could Porsche be next?

  • Giant Purple Snorklewacker

    Jan. 25, 2010 12:29 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

    Ferraris have a paddle shifted sequential that shifts in ridiculous sub-second times that has proven to be better than a pro driver. Honestly... they are a very racing focused company (real or marketed...).

    Racing does not give a rats ass for nostalgia unless its worth lap time and rowing your own is very, very slow. Time marches on. Magic electronic controlled sequential gearboxes are the future. Before the fluid drive there was the manual, before that there was only one gear and before that was hitting the horse with a whip. You can still buy a horse or a manual - just not from Ferrari.

  • Luke

    Jan. 25, 2010 12:29 a.m. Luke SuperDork

    That's a shame. Especially considering the open gate shifter is a bit of a trademark of theirs.

  • Shaun

    Jan. 25, 2010 1:13 a.m. Shaun Reader

    I really miss hand crank starters.

  • MitchellC

    Jan. 25, 2010 1:18 a.m. MitchellC Dork

    Count me in the group who will never make enough (or spend enough) to buy a Ferrari, so I'll take the information with a grain of salt. Traditional shifters are the only ways guaranteed to engage every both hands and both feet while driving, and that's why I love it so much.

  • GI_Drewsifer

    Jan. 25, 2010 2:25 a.m. GI_Drewsifer Reader

    I have to agree with GPS. There amazing double clutch systems out there that honestly are the best of both worlds. I'll keep driving a manual because I think its fun, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking its faster.

  • ZOO

    Jan. 25, 2010 5:21 a.m. ZOO Dork

    I want a traditional manual Italia (never going to happen) with the traditional shift gate. I don't want any hoser to be able to jump in my car, and drive it!

    I also want a Matlock expressway

    I think I am joking.

  • FLATLINE

    Jan. 25, 2010 5:42 a.m. FLATLINE New Reader

    My Only Ferrari Story

    Well.... There are Ferrari's you can get for the price of a SUV. I have seen 308 that need a little tlc for 15-20k before. I worked for a doctor when I was in college and he had a "spare" Red 308 GTB/black Enkei's that his kid had abused. I asked if I could get it running and cleaned up could I drive it to my girlfriends prom. He agreed. After the prom I took the car to back to him... He told me to keep it and drive it for awhile. That lasted for about a year until his crackhead son came back to town for more money and wanted to take it back to Arkansas. He blew it up not long after. I cried myself to sleep for days.... ;)

    The end of My Ferrari Short Story.

  • Feedyurhed

    Jan. 25, 2010 6:20 a.m. Feedyurhed HalfDork

    FLATLINE wrote:

    My Only Ferrari Story

    Well.... There are Ferrari's you can get for the price of a SUV. I have seen 308 that need a little tlc for 15-20k before. I worked for a doctor when I was in college and he had a "spare" Red 308 GTB/black Enkei's that his kid had abused. I asked if I could get it running and cleaned up could I drive it to my girlfriends prom. He agreed. After the prom I took the car to back to him... He told me to keep it and drive it for awhile. That lasted for about a year until his crackhead son came back to town for more money and wanted to take it back to Arkansas. He blew it up not long after. I cried myself to sleep for days.... ;)

    The end of My Ferrari Short Story.

    That may be short but it sure is sweet. How many kids get to take a Ferrari to the prom and then drive it for a year afterwards? Not many I suspect.... probably only you. Some people have all the luck.

  • Twin_Cam

    Jan. 25, 2010 6:35 a.m. Twin_Cam Dork

    Well, can't afford a Ferrari, never will be able to, and wouldn't want to own one even if I could afford it. So I guess this doesn't really matter to me, unless it starts the "trickle-down technology" effect and eventually I can't get a real car in true standard shift...

  • Giant Purple Snorklewacker

    Jan. 25, 2010 7:19 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

    Twin_Cam wrote: unless it starts the "trickle-down technology" effect and eventually I can't get a real car in true standard shift...

    I think its going to be available on every major brand's spec sheet soon and probably replacing a "true" manual cogstuffer eventually as the tech becomes cheaper.

    I will say it seems more at home on a Porsche Cup car or a big GT where either milliseconds or fantastical whizzbangery count for something - if you swapped one into a TR-4 it would make the 6lb 7oz baby jesus cry.

    The weight, cost and complexity seem a bit much at present too - I can't really see Lotus jumping up and down to add 2oolbs to an Exige.

  • gjz30075

    Jan. 25, 2010 7:32 a.m. gjz30075 New Reader

    Unfortunately, I think the trickle down effect will happen for this technology. The sad part is, its the continuing disengagement of the driver to the car, for street use.

  • Adrian_Thompson

    Jan. 25, 2010 7:49 a.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

    I'm almost sure the trickle down technology will eventually help kill all true manual transmissions. Many Euro performance cars that are available with both Manual and either DSG or full auto are actually quicker in acceleration WITHOUT a manual. Plus computer control allows you to get better fuel economy with an auto. Bbeing a Brit I grew up thinking that the only reason to drive an auto was if you were short a limb, but in truth modern auto's are getting really really good to drive. They'll never have the same interaction as a manual, but all the other downsides are now gone for the most part.

    Oh, BTW I still drive a manual, I tried an auto C30 and hated it.

  • jstein77

    Jan. 25, 2010 7:51 a.m. jstein77 HalfDork

    I've yet to autocross a car with any kind of automatic that did what I told it to do. The closest was a Porsche 911 with a Tiptronic, which at least stayed in second gear when I put no input in, but even it had some delay engaging second when I asked it to. I recently drove a GTI with DSG, and I gave up trying to use the steering wheel toggles at the first corner when I couldn't find the button on the rapidly moving wheel. Using the shifter was easier, but it shifted unrequested to third just before a corner, forcing me to downshift in the middle of a corner. I'll only believe that automatics are the answer when I drive one that takes my instructions with no delays or arguments.

  • aussiesmg

    Jan. 25, 2010 7:58 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

    I have a feeling there will always be a couple of gear-head oriented companies who will offer a traditional shifter, I would offer up Lotus, Mazda and maybe Porsche as likely cadidates.

    I also feel the niche market cars will offer manual for many years to come.

    I would hope Ford always offer a traditional stick for the Mustang, after all it is built as old school, has been continually run since 64 and is not the fastest V8 coupe available, but I have my doubts.

  • mad_machine

    Jan. 25, 2010 8:38 a.m. mad_machine PowerDork

    I remember years ago when I bought my 99 Hyundai Tiburon new... the one I bought was the ONLY stick shift they had in a lot of a 30 tiburons..

    face it, the revolution has already occured.. we just have not yet been thrown against the wall to be shot yet

  • 93celicaGT2

    Jan. 25, 2010 8:49 a.m. 93celicaGT2 UltraDork

    This is why i will keep driving 15-20 year old cars. And in 5 years, 20-25 year old cars, and so on.

    I will likely drive 80s and 90s cars for the better part of my life.

  • TJ

    Jan. 25, 2010 8:53 a.m. TJ Dork

    aussiesmg wrote:

    I have a feeling there will always be a couple of gear-head oriented companies who will offer a traditional shifter, I would offer up Lotus, Mazda and maybe Porsche as likely cadidates.

    I also feel the niche market cars will offer manual for many years to come.

    It will take some time for the technology to trickle down to the cheapest cars. I can imagine a time in my lifetime where people look back with wonder that we ever shifted gears manually. Sorta like it is funny to think that cars used to have a lever to adjust the timing advance.

  • alfadriver

    Jan. 25, 2010 8:53 a.m. alfadriver Dork

    Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

    I think its going to be available on every major brand's spec sheet soon and probably replacing a "true" manual cogstuffer eventually as the tech becomes cheaper.

    It's actually not very expensive. Compared to a manual trans, of course, it is... But compared to an Auto- it's cheaper. It's why it's supposed to be featured on the upcoming Fiesta before any other F product.

    The current problem with DSG is making feel like an auto- creep function, smooth as silk shifts- basically stuff that a torque converter lets you get away with. That, and you can't get torque multiplication with a clutch like you can with a torque converter, so I would bet that there will be some kind of loss so you can pull away with massive weight and not so massive power/torque.

    Anyway, for sure, it's not cost- it's details.

    on the OP- what was the last Ferrari race car that came with a traditional H-pattern in it? Seems like Ferrari abandoned that a LOOOONG time ago.

    E-

  • P71

    Jan. 25, 2010 9:13 a.m. P71 SuperDork

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The 550/575 was Ferrari's last "real" car and everything newer is dead to me. When I make my billions selling roadkill it's a 550 Maranello I'll pick up (the 575 started the stupid "Maninetto Switch").

    If the FIAT 500 Abarth/695 Tributo Ferrari makes it here it damn well better have a stick. I don't want to have to swap one in while making payments...

  • Giant Purple Snorklewacker

    Jan. 25, 2010 9:13 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

    TJ wrote:

    It will take some time for the technology to trickle down to the cheapest cars. I can imagine a time in my lifetime where people look back with wonder that we ever shifted gears manually. Sorta like it is funny to think that cars used to have a lever to adjust the timing advance.

    Yeah, there was a time where I lamented the passing of the the manual choke but that time has long passed. Now it pisses me off that my snowblower isnt fuel injected.

  • chaparral

    Jan. 25, 2010 9:20 a.m. chaparral New Reader

    These new systems depend on the engine having a lot of power to run the auto-clutches and "mechatronics" units, and they're heavy. Now that the average car has well over 150 h.p., only a few enthusiasts favor the normal stick-shift, but if your average car has only 75 hp, the 2-3 hp needed to run the box and the 20-50 lb weight gain will matter more.

    Of course, an automated manual box makes a small-engined automatic car tolerable for once. They are clearly preferable to a torque-converter system below 300 hp. Anyone who doesn't think they're a major advance should go drive a conventional automatic with less than 125 hp per ton of car weight - easy way to make an interesting car boring.

  • WilD

    Jan. 25, 2010 9:21 a.m. WilD Reader

    mad_machine wrote: face it, the revolution has already occured.. we just have not yet been thrown against the wall to be shot yet

    Yeah, it is hard to find a manual in many cars even when the only alternative is a horrid traditional automatic.

  • Rusnak_322

    Jan. 25, 2010 9:38 a.m. Rusnak_322 Reader

    I feel the same way about my clutch pedal that I imagine the NRA people feel about their guns.

  • Schmidlap

    Jan. 25, 2010 10:06 a.m. Schmidlap Reader

    If car buyers opt for the true manual transmission enough, automakers will keep them around. If only 1% of car buyers opt for it, I don't blame them for getting rid of them. 15 years ago finding a 4 door car (and many 2 doors) with a manual transmission on anything larger than a 4 cylinder engine was difficult, unless you went to a BMW. Then people got excited about cars again and automakers started offering 6 and 8 cylinder 4 door cars with manual transmissions.

    Bob

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