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Aug. 27, 2009 6:08 a.m. Feedyurhed Reader
The Final Numbers on 'Clunkers'

The Transportation Department said that the program resulted in nearly 700,000 auto sales, and car dealers had submitted requests for $2.877 billion in rebates by the 8 p.m. deadline.

Top 10 New Vehicles Purchased
1. Toyota Corolla
2. Honda Civic
3. Toyota Camry
4. Ford Focus
5. Hyundai Elantra
6. Nissan Versa
7. Toyota Prius
8. Honda Accord
9. Honda Fit
10. Ford Escape FWD
Top 10 Trade-in Vehicles
1. Ford Explorer 4WD
2. Ford F150 Pickup 2WD
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD
4. Ford Explorer 2WD
5. Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan 2WD
6. Jeep Cherokee 4WD
7. Chevrolet Blazer 4WD
8. Chevrolet C1500 Pickup 2WD
9. Ford F150 Pickup 4WD
10. Ford Windstar FWD Van
Aug. 27, 2009 7:16 a.m. mtn Dork

So... basically we sent our tax dollars (profits anyways) to Japan?
Aug. 27, 2009 7:21 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

So is this the REAL list, or the gov't one that makes them look better?
Aug. 27, 2009 7:57 a.m. z31maniac Dork

The gubment list doesn't count different drivetrsin combos of the same vehicle as the same vehicle.

Does Edmunds.com have numbers posted yet?
Aug. 27, 2009 11:15 a.m. rjracin240 New Reader

mtn wrote:

So... basically we sent our tax dollars (profits anyways) to Japan?

We need to take into account all the workers at the factories in the United States that profitted from the program.......would imagine only a small portion of that money actually makes it back to Japan
Aug. 27, 2009 11:31 a.m. spdracer315 Reader

rjracin240 wrote:

mtn wrote:

So... basically we sent our tax dollars (profits anyways) to Japan?

We need to take into account all the workers at the factories in the United States that profitted from the program.......would imagine only a small portion of that money actually makes it back to Japan

Uh oh, these conversations never turn out good...

But ill add fuel to the fire anyways Honda and Toyota dont sound american to me....

...course chevrolet sounds (is) french but SILENCE! Your messing up my arguement!
Aug. 27, 2009 11:41 a.m. bequietanddrive New Reader

mtn wrote:

So... basically we sent our tax dollars (profits anyways) to Japan?

I don't necessarily know if the program was designed to generate cash for American automakers.

I do however see a lot of benefit in individuals doubling their gas mileage from say, 18 mpg or so for a Ford Explorer to 35 mpg for a Honda Fit. Reducing gasoline consumption would benefit everyone in the country by helping to keep demand a little bit lower for gasoline, in turn helping to keep the price down.
Aug. 27, 2009 12:09 p.m. RossD HalfDork

We live in a global economy. /thread
Aug. 27, 2009 12:10 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

We just spent three billion dollars on a scrap metal program for China /thread
Aug. 27, 2009 12:36 p.m. neon4891 SuperDork

While ford had the highest turn in rates, they where also the only american car on the top 10 purchased.

I think we can all agree that this program being over is a good thing.
Aug. 27, 2009 12:43 p.m. TJ HalfDork

bequietanddrive wrote: I do however see a lot of benefit in individuals doubling their gas mileage from say, 18 mpg or so for a Ford Explorer to 35 mpg for a Honda Fit. Reducing gasoline consumption would benefit everyone in the country by helping to keep demand a little bit lower for gasoline, in turn helping to keep the price down.

Ah yes, the efficiency myth. Never in history (that I know of anyway) has increasing effeciency resulted in a lower total demand. Make cars that get better mileage, it becomes cheaper to drive so more people do it for greater distances, resulting in an overall higher demand for gas. Same thing for those CFL light bulbs.

I can't argue that there is no benefit personally - but in the big scheme of things greater efficiency increases demand. If there is a counter example I'd like to hear it.
Aug. 27, 2009 12:43 p.m. spitfirebill Dork

John Brown wrote:

We just spent three billion dollars on a scrap metal program for China /thread

Maybe the govt should have required the scrap metal to be recycled into steel in THIS country.
Aug. 27, 2009 12:54 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

or not done this at all
Aug. 27, 2009 1:23 p.m. z31maniac Dork

TJ wrote:

bequietanddrive wrote: I do however see a lot of benefit in individuals doubling their gas mileage from say, 18 mpg or so for a Ford Explorer to 35 mpg for a Honda Fit. Reducing gasoline consumption would benefit everyone in the country by helping to keep demand a little bit lower for gasoline, in turn helping to keep the price down.

Ah yes, the efficiency myth. Never in history (that I know of anyway) has increasing effeciency resulted in a lower total demand. Make cars that get better mileage, it becomes cheaper to drive so more people do it for greater distances, resulting in an overall higher demand for gas. Same thing for those CFL light bulbs.

I can't argue that there is no benefit personally - but in the big scheme of things greater efficiency increases demand. If there is a counter example I'd like to hear it.

I wonder how more fuel efficient cars are going to affect the Federal Transportation Highway Fund.

Say hello higher fuel taxes!
Aug. 27, 2009 1:52 p.m. MitchellC HalfDork

rjracin240 wrote:

mtn wrote:

So... basically we sent our tax dollars (profits anyways) to Japan?

We need to take into account all the workers at the factories in the United States that profitted from the program.......would imagine only a small portion of that money actually makes it back to Japan

Not to mention that the cars sold here are sold and serviced by Americans.

This is a bit of an aside, but would an unprofitable American company or profitable foreign company pay more in taxes to the United States? I know it is comparing apples to carrots, but it has often crossed my mind.
Aug. 27, 2009 1:56 p.m. bequietanddrive New Reader

I'll take the personal benefit, if anything. I'm sure lots of people will enjoy the benefit as well. If they choose to drive more because they get better gas mileage, that does defeat the purpose a little.

However, are you saying that vehicles on the whole should not get better gas mileage?

Pretty neat article that highlights your point: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-19-new-fuel-economy-standards_N.htm

So you definitely do have a valid point. I must say however that I still think achieving better fuel mileage is a fantastic goal to aim for, effect on prices or not.
Aug. 27, 2009 2:04 p.m. tuna55 Reader

The consitution does not allow this. /Thread
Aug. 27, 2009 4:23 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

neon4891 wrote:

While ford had the highest turn in rates, they where also the only american car on the top 10 purchased.

I think we can all agree that this program being over is a good thing.

Are you sure? Which list are you going with? The fudged numbers Gov't version (which shows all the high mileage "good cars") or the more realistic one: http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/index.htm?cnn=yes

According to that, "american" cars took 8 of the top 10, with 5 being trucks....not really the push to more efficient cars now is it?
Aug. 27, 2009 6:31 p.m. Feedyurhed Reader

Ahhhhhhhhh.........statistics. Everybody has some, they just are not the same as everybody elses.
Aug. 27, 2009 6:57 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

An article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune today said 41% of the cars bought were Japanese brands, 39% were American brands. Plus, many of the Japanese brand cars were built in US factories (no percentage was given for that). It didn't mention what the other 20% were, I suppose mostly Korean and German.

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